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Zelph

Mark Schultz, still most physically gifted?

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When wrestling internationally Mark Schultz was called ' the most physically gifted wrestler in the world'.

Is he still referred to that way?

 

Anyone else given the moniker since he retired?

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I think it would be great to compare him to Burroughs athletically. Schultz didn't have the same constant motion like Burroughs but holy crap when he hit a shot or a throw he didn't leave it to chance and he was VERY quick. It seemed like he would just wait around and do nothing but he was very methodical with his set ups and was every bit a freakishly fast and strong wrestler like Burroughs. It just wasn't constant motion, a lot of stop and go. But he was very difficult to stop because of that. I think guys he wrestled would relax a little bit because he didn't constantly move around or pressure guys like Burroughs does now.

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I have never heard anyone describe Mark Schultz that way, but it's close to true. He started wrestling in 11th grade when he was 17, and he became a 3x NCAA champ and 3x world champ by the time he was 27. If you're counting, that's ten years on the mat total.

 

Here's a breakdown of his wrestling career through the age of 27:

 

17- HS record 4-6

18- HS state champ

19- NCAA record 18-8

20- NCAA RS

21- NCAA champ

22- NCAA champ

23- NCAA champ

24- Olympic champ

25- world champ

26- ???

27- world champ

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The answer simply is yes. No one starts in the 11th grade and becomes a 3 timer x a 3 timer. I would take him in the usa or the world in this area.

 

Sanderson/Yazdani might have something to say about that

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My list would probably include Mark, but he does not have a monopoly on that claim by any stretch.

 

Others, in no particular order:

 

Alexandr Karelin. The epitome of a bruiser.

 

Artur Taymazov. Pound for pound, as strong as Karelin, but more athletic. His brother was an Olympic weightlifing champion, so something is definitely in their genes.

 

Karam Gaber (GR Olympic champ from Egypt). One of the most explosive wrestlers I've ever seen.

 

Yandro Quintana (FS Olympic champ from Cuba). The only guy I can think of who might've been able to "out-Burroughs" Burroughs in terms of raw power from almost any position (just a reference to his physical gifts, not saying he'd beat JB).

 

There is obviously a long list of physical specimens throughout the history of our sport, but the guys above really stand out in my mind.

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Today that brute is Yazdani but did Yazdani start at 16/17 years old. Mark was a special physical talent to come in only after 5 or 6 years of wrestling and win worlds-that is simply amazing. There are a lot of Marks out there that have never wrestled. Just like Herbert and Hrovat said we have to find these Gabe Deans. When we do we will dominate even greater than Russia has done. I would not consider Sanderson a brute or Varner-strong yes but not freaky strong like Schultz.

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I will take it even a step further. Mark was the only three time NCAA champ that won Olympic and world golds correct? That is pretty exclusive for a guy who didnt take wrestling seriously until 12th grade. Mark doesn't get a enough credit on here. Under those circumstances one could argue he was our best wrestler ever. Imagine if he would have started as a youth-would have been a Karelin!

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I will take it even a step further. Mark was the only three time NCAA champ that won Olympic and world golds correct? That is pretty exclusive for a guy who didnt take wrestling seriously until 12th grade. Mark doesn't get a enough credit on here. Under those circumstances one could argue he was our best wrestler ever. Imagine if he would have started as a youth-would have been a Karelin!

 

Tom Brands was also 3 time NCAA champ with Olympic and World golds. I do believe he and Mark are the only ones in that club.

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Most physically gifted??

 

Like how?

 

Are you speaking athletically talented, or athletically diverse or anatomically gifted (lol) or or or??

 

Who could hit a baseball, or pitch one, or throw someone out?

Who could dive/trampoline?

Who could run forever?

 

Let's talk about all around athleticism- yes of course Mark Schultz was gifted.....but I think there's room for debate here.

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We are talking about just wrestlers. After taking wrestling seriously in the 12th grade he won a state title in his first full year as a wrestler-that is rare. The three NCAA titles and three world and OLympic titles. Only if you are a physical freak can you do something like that. I can not think of anyone to compare that to.

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Mentioning "athleticism" on this forum is apparently the same as inviting people to "debate" the meaning of the word and how it relates to wrestling.

 

Comments like "Well, sure he's an athlete, but what does that have to do with wrestling?" and "I mean, athleticism is what track stars have and that doesn't help you in wrestling at all!" really make me mad at our public school system.

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I always saw it like this. Lots of wrestlers get by on basically just being gym rats and becoming VERY good skill wise but are terrible athletes. Then you get guys who have some athletic talent that just comes naturally, maybe nothing overt but they have great balance. Then you get guys who wrestle occasionally who are just exceptional athletes all across. They're incredibly strong functionally, super flexible, great balance and are fast on their feet. With the right coaching if you have somebody who is superior physically they can and will be very good. I like to use this example. When I started off as a high school assistant coach, I was friends with the head football coach at an inner city high school. I didn't coach there though. I'd go to watch the football games and they had a defensive end, 6'5 260, very little fat, but he was a freak of nature type athlete. He ran a 4.5 40, he could slam dunk a basketball easily, he had that natural ability to beat guys off the end and was strong enough to go heads up with interior linemen. Just about every little thing you want an athlete in any sport to do. He played on the kickoff return team, I saw him field a squib kick and instead of trying to fake a guy trying to tackle him, he literally hurdled the guy. Never saw anything like that. I talked to his brother once who was an assistant coach about how wrestling could help him. So after a couple of weeks he decided to give it a try. When he came to the room I remember that once he put on his wrestling shoes and got into a stance he moved like a 160 pounder. We taught him 4 things that day. A blast double, how to ride on top, how to get away on bottom and a power half. I think we got all of that in less than 2 hours. After football he was still interested in wrestling, so he went to the coach and they immediately put him at heavyweight for a varsity dual. I wasn't there to see it, but he dominated a returning state placer. He didn't know anything beyond what me and another coach had showed him. I was more of a practice dummy than coach that day anyway. The kid he wrestled gave up and got pinned in the 2nd period. It was kind of a secret because he was a heavily recruited football prospect, so when they unleashed him at the dual meet it was kind of like the first time Lesnar wrestled for Minnesota. But he decided wrestling wasn't for him and he went back to basketball which I think he enjoyed more. If he had wrestled as a freshman through senior year, I have no doubt he would have been a 3 time state champion. He was an academic casualty in college, he graduated from a juco but his grades weren't good enough for a 4 year school, so he became a youth football coach and I think works for a church or something now. The coaches at the high school he was at were pretty good too so I have no doubt they would have made him VERY good.

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Mark used to do the backflips after the big wins. Yes, he was a total freak. Much stronger than anyone. While he's a physically gifted, Dave was technically gifted. Super brother tandem. Rare combination.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

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When Mark was on these boards, he said that even at his peak he couldn't get his VO2 max higher than the average guy on the street. This is typical of a lot of really explosive athletes. He compensated for this by slowing the tempo and getting himself psyched up for his matches, but I'm sure it affected his wrestling.

 

What is remarkable to me is that an athlete as explosive as Burroughs can peak for the most important matches of the year - he seems to never have conditioning issues at Worlds, whereas he obviously gases at other tournaments throughout the year.

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That one legged kimura throw he did to the Turk, though illegal, was incredible from an athletic standpoint. MMA guys use the kimura as a counter to a leg attack all the time but Ive never seen someone able to do anything remotely similar. Marks gutwrenches were things of beauty too.

 

Both Schultz and Burroughs have mastered the difficult skill of wrestling well while tired. In one of Marks WC finals he got up something lke 7 or 8 to 0 and then got tired. He basically stalled out the rest of the match but did so in a smart way, gave up a few points but nothing dangerous, and won pretty handily. Likewise, dont tell me that Burroughs is fitter than Taylor, but in their US nationals match late Taylor was getting sloppy and out of position and Burroughs was the one doing what had to be done.

 

and yes JBs ability to peak is remarkable. Wonder what hell bring tomorrow, cant wait to see the 754 kg finals.

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