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Why I don't put much stock in scoring points

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One thing that has always puzzled me is the infatuation that so many fans have with wrestlers scoring lots of points and how they use this to make year after year after year what they feel are flawless predictions. A high school guy techs an NCAA All-American in a FS match and suddenly they're the next Cael Sanderson, unbeatable, no need for a redshirt, because they'll no question go in and win it all the next year due to their ability to score so many points.

 

I get it, I really do. Sometimes match results are very revealing. Many examples over the years of guys who scored lots of points and then went on to do the same thing match.

 

Yet, it seems to me that there are just as many examples where that didn't happen. It seems to me that there are many examples, where someone is able to score lots of points and still ends up losing a match.

 

It just seems to me that some of these results, like the ones I've collaborated below, are overlooked from years past and people keep making the "Because he can score so many points he is going to win lots of matches" and "Because he keeps the score close, he won't win" predictions.....both of which I add, are often put to rest in a hurry.

 

2011

@ 157 Bubba Jenkins over David Taylor by fall. David Taylor scored double digit points all year long while Bubba squeaked by and even struggled to score against lower level competition. Penn State fans had written Bubba off and felt Taylor's ability to run up the score would make him the favorite. In fact, in this match Bubba barely scored two points and yet was awarded the national championship.

 

2002

@184 Rob Rohn over Josh Lembrecht by fall. Lembrecht scored point after point to take a 14-3 lead over Rohn. In the stands Oklahoma fans went crazy as Lembrecht used tilt after tilt to run the score up. However, these points did not mean anything in the final minute as Rohn used his patented cement mixer to secure a pin with mere seconds left. Again, Lembrecht's ability to score lots of points meant nothing as he struggled to fight off his back.

 

Time and time again we see posts on this message board where fans get excited about a wrestlers dominance and use this to make future predictions, when in fact it is sometimes the guy that is not dominant who wins in these match-ups, despite giving up tons of points in the process. Just because someone is able to score lots of points in wrestling matches, it doesn't mean they are going to win. Fans need to applaud them for their handwork in times of loss and not be disappointed in situations like these. We as a wrestling community put way too much stock in scoring points. I think coaches and athletes need to take a long hard look at the way we compete and shift the emphasis from working to constantly score points (since this does nothing to guarantee a win), but to instead find the right opening to secure pins (since this is the only thing that will in fact guarantee a win).

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One thing that has always puzzled me is the infatuation that so many fans have with wrestlers scoring lots of points and how they use this to make year after year after year what they feel are flawless predictions. A high school guy techs an NCAA All-American in a FS match and suddenly they're the next Cael Sanderson, unbeatable, no need for a redshirt, because they'll no question go in and win it all the next year due to their ability to score so many points.

 

I get it, I really do. Sometimes match results are very revealing. Many examples over the years of guys who scored lots of points and then went on to do the same thing match.

 

Yet, it seems to me that there are just as many examples where that didn't happen. It seems to me that there are many examples, where someone is able to score lots of points and still ends up losing a match.

 

It just seems to me that some of these results, like the ones I've collaborated below, are overlooked from years past and people keep making the "Because he can score so many points he is going to win lots of matches" and "Because he keeps the score close, he won't win" predictions.....both of which I add, are often put to rest in a hurry.

 

2011

@ 157 Bubba Jenkins over David Taylor by fall. David Taylor scored double digit points all year long while Bubba squeaked by and even struggled to score against lower level competition. Penn State fans had written Bubba off and felt Taylor's ability to run up the score would make him the favorite. In fact, in this match Bubba barely scored two points and yet was awarded the national championship.

 

2002

@184 Rob Rohn over Josh Lembrecht by fall. Lembrecht scored point after point to take a 14-3 lead over Rohn. In the stands Oklahoma fans went crazy as Lembrecht used tilt after tilt to run the score up. However, these points did not mean anything in the final minute as Rohn used his patented cement mixer to secure a pin with mere seconds left. Again, Lembrecht's ability to score lots of points meant nothing as he struggled to fight off his back.

 

Time and time again we see posts on this message board where fans get excited about a wrestlers dominance and use this to make future predictions, when in fact it is sometimes the guy that is not dominant who wins in these match-ups, despite giving up tons of points in the process. Just because someone is able to score lots of points in wrestling matches, it doesn't mean they are going to win. Fans need to applaud them for their handwork in times of loss and not be disappointed in situations like these. We as a wrestling community put way too much stock in scoring points. I think coaches and athletes need to take a long hard look at the way we compete and shift the emphasis from working to constantly score points (since this does nothing to guarantee a win), but to instead find the right opening to secure pins (since this is the only thing that will in fact guarantee a win).

 

We've been saying that for decades and we/I still have to agree. However, there is a fringe element out there that think pins are bad because the better guy is the one who scores more points even if he "gets caught" in a pin. So, they reason, the pinner isn't always the better guy.

This is why wrestling is like life... It aint over til it's over.... be prepared...don't count your chickens before they're hatched...etc. ,etc.

Surprises are good as long as they're earned and not the result of a flawed system or bad referee. Otherwise, the pin is always earned. There is no excuse for getting decked. Only the radical fringes would try to argue that point.

 

Speaking of predictability, I knew only one guy who predicted all 10 NCAA champs just before the final round. We had a pool going. I got 8 right and thought I'd win. It was the 1970 NCAAS. Roy Conrad, a National Champion from 1960, won it all. Gable got beat for the first time and Conrad had to be hooked up to a crystal ball. It had to be ESP. That was when I knew it aint over til it's over.

 

I think Bubba Jenkins was only going to beat Taylor by pin and he knew it. Going further back, I think the same thing happened to Dan Hodge against Bill Smith in Olympic trials. Smith pinned him once (twice ?); it never went the distance. If those guys would have gone the distance by decision, I'm guessing/feeling they wouldn't have lost. That's the beauty of the pin, sudden victory! That's why it's taught, plus the bonus.

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except for the nuance of 'looking for the pin' - which I agree with - I do put stock in scoring points.

 

Low scoring bouts generally mean a great deal of boredom. Certainly some low scoring bouts are exciting. But for the most part college wrestling bouts are often two guys dancing for 3 periods with 20 seconds of action. And then to add insult to injury, the bout goes in to overtime and the guys dance for several more periods.

 

What we need to attract fans is scoring.

 

I agree that some guys are not looking for the pin - just racking up points toward a major or TF. But 'looking for the pin' implies movement, not dancing. If you are looking to set up a pin, for the most part you need movement - which negates boredom. And it also usually means points are being scored.

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2002

@184 Rob Rohn over Josh Lembrecht by fall. Lembrecht scored point after point to take a 14-3 lead over Rohn. In the stands Oklahoma fans went crazy as Lembrecht used tilt after tilt to run the score up. However, these points did not mean anything in the final minute as Rohn used his patented cement mixer to secure a pin with mere seconds left. Again, Lembrecht's ability to score lots of points meant nothing as he struggled to fight off his back.

Actually, Lambrecht used one tilt (never really let go) and got several sets of points. That having been said, it might have been to Rob's benefit as he might not have tried the cement job if only a few behind.

Always amuses me to see people say something like Rob using his 'patented' cement job (mixer). He hardly ever used it other than the semis and finals. I worked the head table back then and after the semis for some reason or other I went for a walk in the outer hidden hallways. Rob was always one to do a very long cool down. I happened to see him out there and went over to him and told him he didn't have a cement job. He laughed and agreed saying the only times he used it in the past it backfired. Just because his name is Rohn ... He's not that closely related to Don. I think Rob's grandfather was Don's uncle or something like that.

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Talk about hitting the nail on the head! Fans need to realize scoring points isn't the end all be all for wrestlers. I just get sick and tired of fans getting excited when their wrestlers score a bunch of points. When their wrestler doesn't score a lot of points they usually criticize him and say he isn't going to win NCAAs.

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One thing that has always puzzled me is the infatuation that so many fans have with wrestlers scoring lots of points and how they use this to make year after year after year what they feel are flawless predictions. A high school guy techs an NCAA All-American in a FS match and suddenly they're the next Cael Sanderson, unbeatable, no need for a redshirt, because they'll no question go in and win it all the next year due to their ability to score so many points.

 

I get it, I really do. Sometimes match results are very revealing. Many examples over the years of guys who scored lots of points and then went on to do the same thing match.

 

Yet, it seems to me that there are just as many examples where that didn't happen. It seems to me that there are many examples, where someone is able to score lots of points and still ends up losing a match.

 

It just seems to me that some of these results, like the ones I've collaborated below, are overlooked from years past and people keep making the "Because he can score so many points he is going to win lots of matches" and "Because he keeps the score close, he won't win" predictions.....both of which I add, are often put to rest in a hurry.

 

2011

@ 157 Bubba Jenkins over David Taylor by fall. David Taylor scored double digit points all year long while Bubba squeaked by and even struggled to score against lower level competition. Penn State fans had written Bubba off and felt Taylor's ability to run up the score would make him the favorite. In fact, in this match Bubba barely scored two points and yet was awarded the national championship.

 

2002

@184 Rob Rohn over Josh Lembrecht by fall. Lembrecht scored point after point to take a 14-3 lead over Rohn. In the stands Oklahoma fans went crazy as Lembrecht used tilt after tilt to run the score up. However, these points did not mean anything in the final minute as Rohn used his patented cement mixer to secure a pin with mere seconds left. Again, Lembrecht's ability to score lots of points meant nothing as he struggled to fight off his back.

 

Time and time again we see posts on this message board where fans get excited about a wrestlers dominance and use this to make future predictions, when in fact it is sometimes the guy that is not dominant who wins in these match-ups, despite giving up tons of points in the process. Just because someone is able to score lots of points in wrestling matches, it doesn't mean they are going to win. Fans need to applaud them for their handwork in times of loss and not be disappointed in situations like these. We as a wrestling community put way too much stock in scoring points. I think coaches and athletes need to take a long hard look at the way we compete and shift the emphasis from working to constantly score points (since this does nothing to guarantee a win), but to instead find the right opening to secure pins (since this is the only thing that will in fact guarantee a win).

 

 

You know it's funny, but you can't exclude (actually you can and you do!) the fact that there are so many times when a wrestler will lose, and lose substantially may I add to a wrestler that he will beat later on in the season. Hell, there are even times when it'll happen at the same tournament!

 

Yet predict that? No, we can't do that. Not here. If a guy wins 10-1 , there is no way, NO WAY that he'll lose to the guy he beat by 9 points the next time they meet. What? Are you crazy!?!?!?!?! He beat him by 9 points! He lost to him by 9 points!! He dominated him! He got his rear handed to him! There's no way that is possible.

 

It just must be my imagination that such a thing could ever happen. That is of course, except for the three or four dozen times that I can point out where that is exactly what happened.

 

Yet history, with exception to the many times where it does, never repeats itself.

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^

"Yet history, with exception to the many times where it does, never repeats itself."

 

JT#1, Yogi Berra couldn't have said it better

Quote like that should go into a book, but I really have a hard time wrestling with reasons.

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^

"Yet history, with exception to the many times where it does, never repeats itself."

 

JT#1, Yogi Berra couldn't have said it better

Quote like that should go into a book, but I really have a hard time wrestling with reasons.

 

You ought to try "The Best Of Friends" or maybe check out my newest endeavor, "The Weird Stories of Smith Jones". Also working on a novella, "We All Bleed Red".

 

Word of advice to all, don't go with Publish America! I made that mistake the first time around and it wasn't a good one to make.

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Speaking of David Taylor, I noticed he was ranked #2 on the 74k ladder. That's right behind Burroughs and right ahead of Kyle dake.

 

Maybe they were acknowledging Taylor's second place finish in Las Vegas and Dake's serious injury. Or maybe they were trying to generate a crapstorm of "no respect" message board posts from people whose screen names either include the word "red" or rhyme with "tribe."

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