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Badger Fan

No crotch lifts, no time to turn, legal stalling

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I went to the World Team Trials and observed a few trends

 

* No one attempted a crotch lift in the entire tournament

* you are given 2-4 seconds to turn someone, and even if you are in the middle of a move , it's both up

* If you are ahead, you basically can dance around like a matador at the end of a match and prevent contact with your opponent - it's completely legal

 

By the same token, when they do call stalling, it is extremely subjective, and can decide the match....

not sure if I like the 30 second shot clock. Why not put someon in par terre position...

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I went to the World Team Trials and observed a few trends

 

* No one attempted a crotch lift in the entire tournament

* you are given 2-4 seconds to turn someone, and even if you are in the middle of a move , it's both up

* If you are ahead, you basically can dance around like a conquistador at the end of a match and prevent contact with your opponent - it's completely legal

 

By the same token, when they do call stalling, it is extremely subjective, and can decide the match....

not sure if I like the 30 second shot clock. Why not put someon in par terre position...

conquistador = matador ?

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Someone came up with a counter to the crotchlift. You'd still get 2, but probably windup getting pinned, orbat a minimum also giving up 2 points. So there wasn't a perentage advantage to using it. I always thought they should guve you 20 seconds on top in par terre, if you couldn't lock up and execute a turn it wasn't going to happen. I've seen 10 seconds given isn't enough time.

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Someone came up with a counter to the crotchlift. You'd still get 2, but probably windup getting pinned, orbat a minimum also giving up 2 points. So there wasn't a perentage advantage to using it. I always thought they should guve you 20 seconds on top in par terre, if you couldn't lock up and execute a turn it wasn't going to happen. I've seen 10 seconds given isn't enough time.

 

 

Now that the crotch-lift and takedowns earn the same amount of points, wrestlers have less of an incentive to hit the crotch-lift. It still has a possible 2-2 situation, so don't count out the crotch-lift entirely, but counter-neutral exposures seem to have waned in recent years because of their relative devaluation and also because of the growth of neutral technique.

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I know when Zeke was at the helm he broke down the technique used at worlds for scoring and the most common score from the feet was a single leg (open was most common set up I think) and I think we see less crotch throws because we see more singles. I also remember someone breaking down scoring from either Semis or Quarters from NCAA's two years ago and one point the author made was that the High Crotch was not used very much at all (not his exact words). Crotch throws are probably less prevalent because of the diminishing trend of high crotches continues. Under the old rules if Wrestler A hits a crotch throw and Wrestler B goes behind its 2-1, even if Wrestler B got another takedown its still 2-2 and Wrestler A wins the period so using the crotch throw has an advantage I think this is along the lines of what Granby Troll is saying. Also, I think we are seeing far less 4-2 exchanges which would have been 3-2 exchanges under the old rules which again diminishes the attempts at a crotch throw.

 

In regards to the Action Clock (shot clock sounds more basketball like) I would like to see some data as to who scores in that 30 seconds. When I was at Southern Plains a few weeks ago I still saw a lot of guys that were not on the clock shoot and score, I thought this was good as it means people are looking to score and not move around avoiding contact as Badger noted above. I listened to an official say they didn't care about attempts just scores, I was confused about this because it seems like if this is the case then how do they determine an aggressor and in turn call passivity? Maybe I didn't hear the full conversation from the individual approaching the table, but he seemed confused as well.

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I know when Zeke was at the helm he broke down the technique used at worlds for scoring and the most common score from the feet was a single leg (open was most common set up I think) and I think we see less crotch throws because we see more singles. I also remember someone breaking down scoring from either Semis or Quarters from NCAA's two years ago and one point the author made was that the High Crotch was not used very much at all (not his exact words). Crotch throws are probably less prevalent because of the diminishing trend of high crotches continues. Under the old rules if Wrestler A hits a crotch throw and Wrestler B goes behind its 2-1, even if Wrestler B got another takedown its still 2-2 and Wrestler A wins the period so using the crotch throw has an advantage I think this is along the lines of what Granby Troll is saying. Also, I think we are seeing far less 4-2 exchanges which would have been 3-2 exchanges under the old rules which again diminishes the attempts at a crotch throw.

 

In regards to the Action Clock (shot clock sounds more basketball like) I would like to see some data as to who scores in that 30 seconds. When I was at Southern Plains a few weeks ago I still saw a lot of guys that were not on the clock shoot and score, I thought this was good as it means people are looking to score and not move around avoiding contact as Badger noted above. I listened to an official say they didn't care about attempts just scores, I was confused about this because it seems like if this is the case then how do they determine an aggressor and in turn call passivity? Maybe I didn't hear the full conversation from the individual approaching the table, but he seemed confused as well.

 

I think you are confusing "Crotch Lift " with "High Crotch".

 

Crotch Lift is a move done from top in par tiere (down on the mat) position that is basically a lift done to turn the opponent and get back exposure points. The reason the Crotch Lift has faded is there is a chance if both wrestlers back expose to the mat it is scored 2-2 (2 points for each)

 

High Crotch is done in the neutral (standing) position for takedown points. It is still one of the top three leg attack takedowns - Double leg, single leg, and Hi-C (the High Crotch is more commonly called the Hi-C now days probably due to political correctness, girls wrestling, and adolescent boys feeling uncomfortable about doing moves involving use of the word crotch)

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I think his point was that a crotch lift is (or was, at least) a common defense to a high-crotch shot. Opponent shoots a high-C, you create separation from his shoulder, step to the corner to get an angle, and go for the crotch lift. Against a single leg, you can't really do a crotch lift without some significant maneuvering first. More single legs and less high-crotches equals less crotch lift counters. Incidentally, one of the reasons you see less high crotch attacks these days is because of the danger of being crotch lifted....

 

Another reason you see less crotch lifts is that many guys used to hit crotch lifts from par terre, or at least faked a crotch lift to set up another move. Sergei Beloglazov used that setup all the time. Problem is now a days you barely get time for a first move from par terre, let alone a setup move.

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I think his point was that a crotch lift is (or was, at least) a common defense to a high-crotch shot. Opponent shoots a high-C, you create separation from his shoulder, step to the corner to get an angle, and go for the crotch lift. Against a single leg, you can't really do a crotch lift

 

 

Besides crotch lifts being awkward at best against a head inside single, there are other easier exposures to hit against a single. We used to teach beginners pinch the head and tip him over for 2, and pinch the head and roll with the ankle for 2. Both are very easy to hit against a bad single, as opposed to a crotch-lift which even Metcalf would have trouble hitting against my single.

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