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MadMardigain

Cael Sanderson participating in an MMA Training Session

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Tons of very good boxers make peanuts, while UFC champions can make millions with endorsements. George St. Pierre made $12 million in endorsements either in 2013 or 2012. What did the 10th ranked boxer make? Chump change compared to what George made.

 

So why then did the 10th ranked boxer not simply cross over and kick George's ass and take all his endorsement money? Because it isn't that easy. Maybe George would have beat him to a pulp, or tore one of his arms off.

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I am a fan of Cael's, as much as anyone, but Roy Jones would throttle him...Roy Jones is an athlete, not just a boxer.

 

Ali was an athlete too, and he couldn't even hit that Japanese Sumo guy. The Sumo guy laid on his frieking back and Ali couldn't do anything to him.

 

Roy Jones would have to land the perfect punch in the first 20 seconds to take out an Olympic caliber wrestler, because once they get thru and get their hands on him he will be tied up and they will keep him on the ground.

 

I used to believe that a great boxer would beat a great wrestler, but the beginnings of MMA shows this is simply not the case. The wrestlers won almost all the time vs. pure boxers. The difference was so lopsided that pure boxers rarely even try the crossover MMA any more. That is your best evidence right there.

 

 

A perfect punch? One decent punch, by a pro boxer will make you forget all about your "plan"....next thing you know, you are down...

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CAel is too much a pretty boy, not a killer like Mark Schultz. Cael is lucky he never had to wrestle Mark. Very lucky he never had to meet up with Greg Stroble.

 

Wrestling as Cael did and his whining about how the refs were unfair to him - MMA would see him with his head handed to him on a regular basis.

 

An excellent wrestler but definately not a fighter. Leave that to Schultz and keep Cael coaching the PornState child molestors.

 

Cael would tool up Schultz. At this point, I would wager on Cael vs Wanderlei in a straight MMA fight as well.

 

Based on what? Schultz is stronger, just as technical and much meaner. He also had a longer and better career internationally. Not saying it'd be easy but if they wrestled 10 times he'd beat Sanderson more than half of those. Sanderson had trouble with guys who were better athletes like Romero. He could win occasionally but Romero beat him soundly all but once or twice. Mark was also taught by one of the best Americans ever, his brother. Sanderson is great as well, but against Schultz he'd find a lot of his skills neutralized. If they wrestled now I'd take Sanderson all the way though, but in their respective primes, it'd be fun to watch but I'd say Schultz gets 7/10.

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We used to have this drunken debate 25 years ago when I was in college....

 

Who would win a fight between Bruce Baumgartner and Mike Tyson?

 

This was when Tyson was the 'baddest man on the planet'. I always contended that if Bruce could take 2-3 punches and he got in on Tyson's body it would be all Bruce. My non-wrestling roommates thought I was crazy. I believe that the last 15 years of MMA have vindicated my belief.

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I used to believe that a great boxer would beat a great wrestler, but the beginnings of MMA shows this is simply not the case. The wrestlers won almost all the time vs. pure boxers. The difference was so lopsided that pure boxers rarely even try the crossover MMA any more. That is your best evidence right there.

 

 

A perfect punch? One decent punch, by a pro boxer will make you forget all about your "plan"....next thing you know, you are down...

 

Baloney. If the boxer does not knock out the wrestler then the wrestler ties the boxer up into a pretzel. Game over. MMA has proven this to be so time and time again.

 

Again, I used to believe what you now believe, but MMA convinced me that I was wrong on this issue so my point of view had to change to go along with the objective evidence.

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I used to believe that a great boxer would beat a great wrestler, but the beginnings of MMA shows this is simply not the case. The wrestlers won almost all the time vs. pure boxers. The difference was so lopsided that pure boxers rarely even try the crossover MMA any more. That is your best evidence right there.

 

 

A perfect punch? One decent punch, by a pro boxer will make you forget all about your "plan"....next thing you know, you are down...

 

Baloney. If the boxer does not knock out the wrestler then the wrestler ties the boxer up into a pretzel. Game over. MMA has proven this to be so time and time again.

 

Again, I used to believe what you now believe, but MMA convinced me that I was wrong on this issue so my point of view had to change to go along with the objective evidence.

 

I think the 6 out of 8 UFC champs being wrestlers says you are right. I would wager they have been hit by a decent puncher or two in their careers and yet they are still the champs.

 

As was stated earlier there are such a small amount of boxers that make more than the top MMA guys that saying that don't join MMA because they are already making so much money is laughable. If they thought they had a chance they would do it.

 

MMA is for people who want to actually fight, not just limit themselves to a single aspect of a fight.

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I think the 6 out of 8 UFC champs being wrestlers says you are right.

 

We know that some of the best wrestlers in the country and world have tried MMA. Can we say the same for boxing? How many of their top athletes have tried MMA?

 

I would wager they have been hit by a decent puncher or two in their careers and yet they are still the champs.

 

But how many of those shots were from elite boxers?

 

 

As was stated earlier there are such a small amount of boxers that make more than the top MMA guys that saying that don't join MMA because they are already making so much money is laughable. If they thought they had a chance they would do it.

 

That's simply speculation HuskyHero133. One could simply say that boxers are sticking with the sport in order to one day get the huge payday that MMA has yet to produce. As far as I can tell, that statement has just as much support as the one you made.

 

MMA is for people who want to actually fight, not just limit themselves to a single aspect of a fight.

 

Is that true for all MMA athletes? Maybe some are there because they couldn't make it to the top of their first sport (wrestling/boxing/bjj/etc.).

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How many elite boxers have tried MMA? I know a lot of elite wrestlers have.

 

Not many, but the reason few have is because they don't want to diminish their earning power. It's like asking why Lebron James doesn't play professional football. He might be good at it or he might be terrible. If he's terrible and gets injured then he wouldn't be able to play basketball and make the same money he does now. The risk doesn't outweigh the reward.

 

I think Ray Mercer, Melton Bowen, Shannon Briggs, James Toney and Ricardo Mayorga have all fought in MMA at least once. Guys like Jones Jr., Mayweather there's no reason to try. They make a ton of money boxing. Why would they give that up to participate in a sport where they only have half to 1/3 the skillset to participate in? It makes no sense. Especially when anybody who's got a decent wrestling background can neutralize their biggest weapon.

 

FYI, when Schultz had his only MMA fight, the guy he fought was a pretty good boxer who had very heavy hands and could use his elbows and knees pretty well too. I think Schultz landed the only punches standing up during that fight too.

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How many elite boxers have tried MMA? I know a lot of elite wrestlers have.

 

Not many, but the reason few have is because they don't want to diminish their earning power. It's like asking why Lebron James doesn't play professional football. He might be good at it or he might be terrible. If he's terrible and gets injured then he wouldn't be able to play basketball and make the same money he does now. The risk doesn't outweigh the reward.

 

I think Ray Mercer, Melton Bowen, Shannon Briggs, James Toney and Ricardo Mayorga have all fought in MMA at least once. Guys like Jones Jr., Mayweather there's no reason to try. They make a ton of money boxing. Why would they give that up to participate in a sport where they only have half to 1/3 the skillset to participate in? It makes no sense. Especially when anybody who's got a decent wrestling background can neutralize their biggest weapon.

 

 

Excellent post. ALL 5 of those guys were very old and way past their prime when they tried MMA, they were in it just for a payday because they are no longer relevant in boxing. It is a complete joke for having an argument who can win when you are throwing a bunch of has been boxers in a cage. The ONLY way to see who would win, which would probably never happen, is have the very best from each sport fight one another. If the boxer lands first it is over. If the mma guy takes the boxer down, it's over.

 

Let's switch this around and throw in a average or garbage MMA fighter in the cage against Cotto, Ward, Klit, Pac, etc. The boxer would lay out an mma guy in under 20 seconds. What does this prove? Absolutely nothing. Just like the above guys losing in mma.

 

I have boxed for over 20 years and had many amateur fights. Even in my mid 30's when i was semi active with boxing, I was tooling up much younger than me mma fighters sparring. Most of them were scared to get close to me or throw punches for fear of being counterpunched. Of course these were only amateur fighters. I will say this, getting kicked in the legs hurts like a $%@!!!

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ANYONE that thinks a boxer has a chance vs a wrestler has not paid any attention over the years.

 

I am a huge boxing fan and yeah...... anybody who thinks a boxer can beat a wrestler in a MMA bout doesn't know much about wrestling much less MMA. What boxer, standing straight up, could defend a power double. Once it's on the mat, game over.

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I am a fan of Cael's, as much as anyone, but Roy Jones would throttle him...Roy Jones is an athlete, not just a boxer.

 

Ali was an athlete too, and he couldn't even hit that Japanese Sumo guy. The Sumo guy laid on his frieking back and Ali couldn't do anything to him.

 

Roy Jones would have to land the perfect punch in the first 20 seconds to take out an Olympic caliber wrestler, because once they get thru and get their hands on him he will be tied up and they will keep him on the ground.

 

I used to believe that a great boxer would beat a great wrestler, but the beginnings of MMA shows this is simply not the case. The wrestlers won almost all the time vs. pure boxers. The difference was so lopsided that pure boxers rarely even try the crossover MMA any more. That is your best evidence right there.

 

Actually, Ali landed on Inoki pretty hard in the first. Inoki tasting that wanted nothing to do with stand up and basically went into guard for the rest of the fight kicking Ali in the calves. Whoever coached Ali apparently knew Inoki had some grappling or Ju Jistsu skills and coached him not to even consider going ground. So for 15 rounds Inoki laid on his back and kicked, and occasionally Ali would try to land a kick or jab.

 

FWIW, Inoki wasn't a 'real' wrestler (which became apparent early) but only a pro wrestler actor thing.

 

I am old enough to have watched that thing live. Ali was my hero but even back then (cause I wrestled) I knew If it went to ground Ali was toast.

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Look at what Floyd Mayweather makes and then look at what Johny Hendricks makes and then tell yourself that boxers don't cross over because they are afraid of wrestlers.

 

Floyd Mayweather may be a bad example...... nobody in boxing comes close to what he makes. Boxing still has so much history and legacy. What hurts the hard core long time fan like me is how they have wasted this legacy. Unless one is a hard core boxing fan, who would they know other than Pac and Mayweather? How many people could tell you the names of the heavyweight champions today? Gone is the day when EVERY 'sports' fan knew about Dempsey, Louis, Bear, Braddock, Marciano, Patterson, Moore, Liston, Ali, Frazier, Foreman, Norton, Holmes, Tyson, and Holyfield. I dare say I could go into any HS, or college, and most of them know more MMA names than I do. And know of virtually no boxing names. When us old timers go, and even I don't follow boxing all that much, boxing will languish as well.

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How many elite boxers have tried MMA? I know a lot of elite wrestlers have.

 

Not many, but the reason few have is because they don't want to diminish their earning power. It's like asking why Lebron James doesn't play professional football. He might be good at it or he might be terrible. If he's terrible and gets injured then he wouldn't be able to play basketball and make the same money he does now. The risk doesn't outweigh the reward.

 

I think Ray Mercer, Melton Bowen, Shannon Briggs, James Toney and Ricardo Mayorga have all fought in MMA at least once. Guys like Jones Jr., Mayweather there's no reason to try. They make a ton of money boxing. Why would they give that up to participate in a sport where they only have half to 1/3 the skillset to participate in? It makes no sense. Especially when anybody who's got a decent wrestling background can neutralize their biggest weapon.

 

 

Excellent post. ALL 5 of those guys were very old and way past their prime when they tried MMA, they were in it just for a payday because they are no longer relevant in boxing. It is a complete joke for having an argument who can win when you are throwing a bunch of has been boxers in a cage. The ONLY way to see who would win, which would probably never happen, is have the very best from each sport fight one another. If the boxer lands first it is over. If the mma guy takes the boxer down, it's over.

 

Let's switch this around and throw in a average or garbage MMA fighter in the cage against Cotto, Ward, Klit, Pac, etc. The boxer would lay out an mma guy in under 20 seconds. What does this prove? Absolutely nothing. Just like the above guys losing in mma.

 

I have boxed for over 20 years and had many amateur fights. Even in my mid 30's when i was semi active with boxing, I was tooling up much younger than me mma fighters sparring. Most of them were scared to get close to me or throw punches for fear of being counterpunched. Of course these were only amateur fighters. I will say this, getting kicked in the legs hurts like a $%@!!!

 

 

I don't know much about boxing, but I know that when Bowen fought in UFC he was the IBF heavyweight champion. When you talk about sparring MMA guys, was t just boxing or were they going to be able to grapple and take you down? I can understand the hesitancy. I had a couple of pro MMA fights in my day, and part of why I quit was because I really didn't like getting punched in the face. When I would spar in training I didn't like it or even during fights I didn't like it. Nobody really likes it, people just tolerate it better than others. I was also not much of a puncher, I think I only ended one fight by TKO and that was more due to me being a better wrestler, not because I had heavy hands. I stuck to what I was good at and it worked. But back then MMA striking wasn't anywhere near as advanced as it was, hell we were still in the days of guys fighting in t shirts and representing their Karate or Kung Fu dojo. Most of the fights were pretty one sided and you knew who would win in most cases before the fight began. Only a few of the fights were truly competitive, and that was because most of the "fighters" who stepped in there barely trained and weren't ready to fight somebody who could submit them or take them off their feet. I remember one guy who was a pretty tough local heavyweight MMA fighter, and I'd seen him uncork some pretty nasty bombs onto people, I saw him get embarrassed by a local pro boxer who had been a great amateur (almost made an Olympic team) in sparring. It was so uneven that the boxer was basically able to have a conversation with people watching and land punches whenever he wanted. Had it been MMA that pro boxer would have been eating his glove. But with just hands and headgear it was a total mismatch. That's why I'm not surprised. Add grappling to that equation and I doubt many people are going to fear that unless they aren't confident in their takedown skills or ground game. I remember one fight I had I knew the guy was very good on his feet so I took him down in about 15 seconds. Unfortunately he was also really good on the ground so I was kind of screwed. But I'll be damned if he was going to hit me standing up.

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Mark Schultz was stronger than Cael. Shorter and would give Cael fits in trying for takedowns.

As for the punching and beating - watch Schultz on YouTube beat hell out of his opponent - in a match he was not even prepared for. Took it as a last minute replacement.

 

Cael would by crying before it was over..., if he could even make noise once Schultz finished with him.

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Mark Schultz was stronger than Cael. Shorter and would give Cael fits in trying for takedowns.

As for the punching and beating - watch Schultz on YouTube beat hell out of his opponent - in a match he was not even prepared for. Took it as a last minute replacement.

 

Cael would by crying before it was over..., if he could even make noise once Schultz finished with him.

 

perhaps but more importantly did Mark Schultz ever serve in the military?

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MMA is for people who want to actually fight, not just limit themselves to a single aspect of a fight.

 

Is that true for all MMA athletes? Maybe some are there because they couldn't make it to the top of their first sport (wrestling/boxing/bjj/etc.).

 

And therein lies the truth. Also, many wrestlers have transferred to MMA, because that have no place to practise after college. Which is the reason MMA is not as popular outside USA among wrestlers, since they have a chance to continue training through their lives.

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CAel is too much a pretty boy, not a killer like Mark Schultz. Cael is lucky he never had to wrestle Mark. Very lucky he never had to meet up with Greg Stroble.

 

Wrestling as Cael did and his whining about how the refs were unfair to him - MMA would see him with his head handed to him on a regular basis.

 

An excellent wrestler but definately not a fighter. Leave that to Schultz and keep Cael coaching the PornState child molestors.

 

"Porn" starts with "p" and ends with "n." So does "Penn." Therefore, "Porn State." Clever!

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Roy Jones was born 1-16-69, Couture 6-22-63. The wrestler who was 5 years, 7 months older made the boxer look like a little girl. Anyone who believes a boxer is a serious threat to a wrestler in a fight is, in my opinion, either uninformed or not a realist. I have been in and/or seen MANY fights in real life, and wrestlers ABSOLUTELY DOMINATE BOXERS. As far as money is concerned, Chris Arreolla, long time heavyweight contender who has fought for the world title, has been, and I believe is currently broke.

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Roy Jones was born 1-16-69, Couture 6-22-63. The wrestler who was 5 years, 7 months older made the boxer look like a little girl. Anyone who believes a boxer is a serious threat to a wrestler in a fight is, in my opinion, either uninformed or not a realist. I have been in and/or seen MANY fights in real life, and wrestlers ABSOLUTELY DOMINATE BOXERS. As far as money is concerned, Chris Arreolla, long time heavyweight contender who has fought for the world title, has been, and I believe is currently broke.

 

True with a codicil; if you took an athlete like Ali, very reactive, quick, incredibly fast, strong, and a natural in ties, and got him some MMA training (obviously with wrestling), his striking abilities would be profound as long as he could defend TD's.

 

Wrestling and Ju Jitsu are obviously the best disciplines to succeed in the sport, but all disciplines bring their abilities, but being a natural striker with those skills coming in, and an all time world class athlete, would come in handy.

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