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JHRoseWrestling

Why did Lester forefit?

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That is, at once, both great teamwork and reprehensible. It's one thing to do that at some open tournament, but here, we are trying to field the best possible team to represent our country. At what point is country a higher prirority than team? That should be disallowed.

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I don't like this at all. It sounded as if he wanted to be on the other side of the bracket then would have given the spot to his teammate. This type of thing just leaves a sour taste in my mouth.

 

He is trying to make the team at 70kg, so he entered to knock guys out for his teammates. Army does that all the time.

Can you point to other times this has been done?

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This system of spreading the qualifiers out has proven very positive in a lot of ways (Haze and Bergman showing up in particular tells me this has merit). Still, we have identified one significant drawback in this system. A guy who fully intends to go Greco could work to clear the way on the freestyle side as well (although this seems far less likely) and then forfeit out.

 

It's annoying that individual teams would do this, but I would say it isn't reprehensible. They are looking out for their own, which is the coaching staff's job. What would be reprehensible would be if we don't see swift action (rule changes) from USA Wrestling that prevent this from happening going forward.

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its a cool move in open tournaments, lame move at the team trials.

 

didnt it basically happen at the 2013 worlds at 66kg? Lopez beat Garcia 1-0 in the quarters and i remember asking why it was the most boring match i've ever seen and someone said they train together and basically decided before the bout who'd win.

 

easiest fix is to just wrestle all the weights the same week, no? not really that big of a deal to me tho.

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BobDole & All,

 

It is notable that if Lester HAD been on the other side of the bracket, there is a strong possibility we would have a different representative at the weight on the world team.

And it would not have been the best guy at the weight....thank goodness for the bracket/seed gods. I hope USAW puts a screeching halt to this practice as we could see it in either style with the way the trials are set up.

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It's annoying that individual teams would do this, but I would say it isn't reprehensible. They are looking out for their own, which is the coaching staff's job. What would be reprehensible would be if we don't see swift action (rule changes) from USA Wrestling that prevent this from happening going forward.

 

Isn't the USA "their own"? At what point does looking out for the best team your country can produce become more important than putting as many Army guys on the team?

 

I'd be OK with it if this were some random open, but this is the WTTs. By doing this, you are minimizing the country's chances to medal at the worlds.

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USA wrestling should not have I make a specific rule against this happening. This is a violation of the ethics of the world and Olympic team trials. As stated previously, at a random open tournament this is a non-issue, but this type of stuff happening in the world or Olympic team trials or even the US Open is not acceptable and cause for corruption.

 

What needs to be done now is USA wrestling needs to hire jake dietchler for one weekend to go up to Fargo and knock Lester out of his bracket. Kind of like a hachet man. Then he would think twice about pulling this stunt again. Obviously, this last part is satire, but it might just be a reasonable answer.

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There was a match years ago at the US Open when Jake and Joey Clark wound up wrestling each other. I forget who won but the final score was 35-30. Nobody complained about that.

 

Neither entered the tournament just to knock others out for the other.

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Ronald & wrestlingnerd:

 

I truly appreciate your spirit. Of course, team USA is our team for all of us. But these coaches coach Greco for a living. They will not be judged by their employers by how good the world team is. They will be judged by whether they have world tram members and world medalists. These guys are trying to keep their jobs and grow their professional opportunities within the sport.

 

This is why I sincerely and respectfully disagree with you Ronald. It is the role of our national governing body to govern, and the role of the coaches to take care of their athletes. USA Wrestling is absolutely at task to step in and set rules that prevent coaches from manipulating this system. The US Army coaches should have their number 1 priority set at getting guys on the team, and USA wrestling should have their priorities set at sending the best team possible, as well as having a fair qualifying system. It won't be hard to set firm guidelines that prevent this from happening again.

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its a cool move in open tournaments, lame move at the team trials.

 

didnt it basically happen at the 2013 worlds at 66kg? Lopez beat Garcia 1-0 in the quarters and i remember asking why it was the most boring match i've ever seen and someone said they train together and basically decided before the bout who'd win.

 

easiest fix is to just wrestle all the weights the same week, no? not really that big of a deal to me tho.

 

Jaroslav,

 

Yes that's the easiest fix. But we miss out on some of the awesome advantages of the new system. Haze and Bergman are perfect examples. I would propose a rule, while drastic, would protect the situation: if you injury default, you can't re-enter the series at a later date. While this hurts an honestly injured athlete who could re-enter in a different weight or style, under the old system, that athlete would have been done anyway.

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Ronald & wrestlingnerd:

 

I truly appreciate your spirit. Of course, team USA is our team for all of us. But these coaches coach Greco for a living. They will not be judged by their employers by how good the world team is. They will be judged by whether they have world tram members and world medalists. These guys are trying to keep their jobs and grow their professional opportunities within the sport.

 

This is why I sincerely and respectfully disagree with you Ronald. It is the role of our national governing body to govern, and the role of the coaches to take care of their athletes. USA Wrestling is absolutely at task to step in and set rules that prevent coaches from manipulating this system. The US Army coaches should have their number 1 priority set at getting guys on the team, and USA wrestling should have their priorities set at sending the best team possible, as well as having a fair qualifying system. It won't be hard to set firm guidelines that prevent this from happening again.

 

The coaches and athletes should also act ethically and not force USAW to make a rule for it. If the coaches feel they need to send in an "assassin" to take someone out for another guy then they are not doing a good enough job. This really looks bad for the sport and in all honesty I wouldn't mind coaches or athletes suspended over this.

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its a cool move in open tournaments, lame move at the team trials.

 

didnt it basically happen at the 2013 worlds at 66kg? Lopez beat Garcia 1-0 in the quarters and i remember asking why it was the most boring match i've ever seen and someone said they train together and basically decided before the bout who'd win.

 

easiest fix is to just wrestle all the weights the same week, no? not really that big of a deal to me tho.

 

Jaroslav,

 

Yes that's the easiest fix. But we miss out on some of the awesome advantages of the new system. Haze and Bergman are perfect examples. I would propose a rule, while drastic, would protect the situation: if you injury default, you can't re-enter the series at a later date. While this hurts an honestly injured athlete who could re-enter in a different weight or style, under the old system, that athlete would have been done anyway.

How about a rule that coaches and athletes act in an ethical manner when determining the world team?

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There was a match years ago at the US Open when Jake and Joey Clark wound up wrestling each other. I forget who won but the final score was 35-30. Nobody complained about that.

The match between the Clark brothers has nothing to do with this situation at all. Jake was clearly the better of the Clark brothers, however, out of sheet respect, jake refused to beat his brother in competition. Even if it meant losing a chance to win a major tournament or make a world team.

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Come on, Bob.

 

We both want the same thing. It's ok to be annoyed by these tactics (if it's not clear, I am as well), but the current rules allow for this approach. Instead of message board pissing and moaning about it, we can have a solution. I always hear from ref's, "let the wrestlers wrestle, let the coaches coach, and let the referees ref." I am cool with that. In this situation, we should add "let the administrators administrate". Good coaches take advantage of the rules to benefit their athletes in every sport at every level. USAW needs to step in and fix this. If you think human nature is going to allow the coaches to do this... Well you will have a lot to post about for a long time.

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Come on, Bob.

 

We both want the same thing. It's ok to be annoyed by these tactics (if it's not clear, I am as well), but the current rules allow for this approach. Instead of message board pissing and moaning about it, we can have a solution. I always hear from ref's, "let the wrestlers wrestle, let the coaches coach, and let the referees ref." I am cool with that. In this situation, we should add "let the administrators administrate". Good coaches take advantage of the rules to benefit their athletes in every sport at every level. USAW needs to step in and fix this. If you think human nature is going to allow the coaches to do this... Well you will have a lot to post about for a long time.

I am just disappointed that a coach and athlete tried this. I was hoping this sport would be able shenanigans like this.

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Come on, Bob.

 

We both want the same thing. It's ok to be annoyed by these tactics (if it's not clear, I am as well), but the current rules allow for this approach. Instead of message board pissing and moaning about it, we can have a solution. I always hear from ref's, "let the wrestlers wrestle, let the coaches coach, and let the referees ref." I am cool with that. In this situation, we should add "let the administrators administrate". Good coaches take advantage of the rules to benefit their athletes in every sport at every level. USAW needs to step in and fix this. If you think human nature is going to allow the coaches to do this... Well you will have a lot to post about for a long time.

Apparently you don't want the same thing. There is a rule to this effect but how could you ever prove anything?

Technically this is from the immediately previous rule set but I would doubt this one changed.

 

Article 49 - General prohibitions

Wrestlers are forbidden to:

...

- agree the match result between themselves

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