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Will we ever see another Cary Kolat?

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Both 4X AA but one is a 3X champ the other a 2X champ easy choice for me.

 

 

This has always been too simplistic of an analysis in my opinion.

What else is there to look at? International medals? Undefeated seasons? This is not a knock on kolat just that Abas is a great plus one of his loses was going up a weight a against the defending NCAA champ at 126.

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I think I understood what you were trying to say...Remember Kolat as a true freshman knocked off the defending national champion (Troy Steiner) at the NCAA's, I'm not sure what his record was that year but he was ready to compete nationally at the D1 level right out of High School. If Kolat redshirt's his freshmen year then he most likely wins 3 NCAA titles. That being said didn't Kolat tie Chris Bono in the PA/USA meet his senior year.

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Both 4X AA but one is a 3X champ the other a 2X champ easy choice for me.

 

 

This has always been too simplistic of an analysis in my opinion.

What else is there to look at? International medals? Undefeated seasons? This is not a knock on kolat just that Abas is a great plus one of his loses was going up a weight a against the defending NCAA champ at 126.

 

 

I'm not necessarily disagreeing with you in this particular case, but I usually like to judge on a combination of factors, including hardware, level of competition, and my personal perception. I dont think I would say all 3x champions are above all 2x champions just because of the extra hardware.

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Actually, if you read my initial post carefully, I was trying to emphasize Kolat's unique style, not so much his accompishments which were great as well.

What was his "style" that you speak of?

 

Kolat was an innovator. His flexibility was pretty sick to boot.

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I'll take Uetake, Smith, Gable and Sanderson over Kolat. Add in Blubaugh and you have an old timer as well and I am not discounting Robin Reed, just have never seen any film of him even though he should probably be right up there with Uetake and Sanderson as far as how good he was for his time.

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Actually, if you read my initial post carefully, I was trying to emphasize Kolat's unique style, not so much his accompishments which were great as well.

What was his "style" that you speak of?

 

Kolat was an innovator. His flexibility was pretty sick to boot.

 

Askren perhaps? One of the best "body awareness" guys we've ever seen.

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There are plenty of wrestlers with unique accomplishments. The one that comes to mind for me is Wade Schalles. I had the opportunity of watching him wrestle at the 1978 World Cup in Toledo where he was coached by Dan Gable. I got both of their autographs that day, in addition to Dave Schultz, Mark Lieberman, Russ Hellickson and others.

 

From Wikipedia:

 

Schalles is easily wrestling's most accomplished pinner, in his senior year of high school he pinned his way through the season, pinning a two-time State Champ who was 154-0 entering the match in the Pennsylvania State Finals. The match was recently voted by sports writers, officials, and coaches as the most memorable State Final in Pennsylvania state history. And for his 100th NCAA pin, Schalles pinned his opponent from Lock Haven on a tiny masking-tape "X" his fraternity brothers had surreptitiously placed on the mat prior to the match as part of a charity fundraiser.

 

During his collegiate days at Clarion University, Schalles won 4 NCAA Championships, 1 Collegiate World Championship, and 4 Pennsylvania State College Championships and he was voted Outstanding Wrestler of that tournament all four times - the only PA wrestler in history to earn that distinction. Schalles is the only Division I wrestler to pin over 100 opponents, an NCAA record. For his pinning prowess, WIN Magazine, and the National Wrestling Coaches Association, annually presents the Schalles Award to the top scholastic and collegiate pinners in America. Schalles' schoolboy years were spent wrestling for Holidaysburg High School in Holidaysburg, Pennsylvania, where he finished he senior year with a state title and a 96% pinning percentage - still a record today.

 

During Schalles’ competitive days, Sports Illustrated said he was “the most exciting wrestler to ever walk onto a wrestling mat.” Amateur Wrestling News selected him as the best American middleweight of the 20th Century. Dan Gable called him, “the greatest pinner he’s ever seen!” Currently he is in the Guinness Book of World Records for having the most wins and pins of anyone who has ever competed. Schalles has won 15 national championships and been an All-American in five different combative disciplines: Judo, Sombo, Freestyle, Folkstyle and Greco-Roman wrestling.

 

 

Wow. I didn't realize he won NCAA 4 times. Also, while we have historians on this site, I think I read where Bobby Douglas would consistently beat Gable but was "supposedly" robbed during Olympic trials. Any truth to this?

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He wasn't "robbed". In 1968 Trials, the coach gave Gable repeated rematches against Douglas despite DOuglas consistently beating Gable. The coach probably wanted to capitalize on Gable's notoriety. Eventually, however, the coach gave up and Bobby Douglas got his rightfully earned spot on the Olympic Team. So, he wasn't "robbed" since he got his spot, but he was definitely treated unequally.

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I guess it depends on who you ask. Many indeed feel that Douglas was robbed of an opportunity to perform his best at the Olympics as he was injured in having to beat Gable over and over in order to capture the spot on the Olympic team. I'm not sure I call that a robbery, but certainly a travesty. Others do use the word robbery in order to describe the situation.

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I guess it depends on who you ask. Many indeed feel that Douglas was robbed of an opportunity to perform his best at the Olympics as he was injured in having to beat Gable over and over in order to capture the spot on the Olympic team. I'm not sure I call that a robbery, but certainly a travesty. Others do use the word robbery in order to describe the situation.

 

How close to the Olympics did they have these try outs?

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I guess it depends on who you ask. Many indeed feel that Douglas was robbed of an opportunity to perform his best at the Olympics as he was injured in having to beat Gable over and over in order to capture the spot on the Olympic team. I'm not sure I call that a robbery, but certainly a travesty. Others do use the word robbery in order to describe the situation.

 

How close to the Olympics did they have these try outs?

 

 

 

WEST VIRGINIA MAT THOUGHTS

by Dr. Bill Welker

 

... on Bobby Douglas The Wrestler

 

As a teenager growing up into manhood during the late '50s, Bobby Douglas had two strikes against him. He was poor and he was black, facing the realities of prejudice.

 

But Bobby Douglas also had two positive assets going for him. He was a great athlete and he had George Kovalick as a coach and surrogate father. Thus, Douglas developed into an outstanding wrestler, winning two Ohio state championships, numerous national titles, and berths on two Olympic teams (1964 & 1968) and several World Championship squads. Later, as a coach, he produced the 1988 Arizona State NCAA Division I Champions and most recently was selected to coach the 1992 Freestyle Olympic Team.

 

One would think with these accomplishments Bobby, at least, would not have to face prejudice on the mats. Unfortunately, such was not the case over twenty years ago. Consider this true incident in Bobby's final days as a competitor.

 

It was 1970 and Bobby Douglas decided to take one more shot at the World Championships. He made it to the finals of the U.S. trials, where Bobby had to beat his opponent (a rising star in the sport) the best out of 3 bouts. Well, Douglas did win the first two matches by close margins. That should have settled it. Not so! The world-team coach decided he wanted them to wrestle another match, even after the younger wrestler told the mentor--"Hey, Bobby's the winner; he beat me fair and square in two matches."

 

The coach still insisted that they wrestle another bout. Bobby was upset and said, "Look! Wrestlers in other weight classes had some close matches and won, but they weren't forced to wrestle an extra match. Why me?" He finished by telling the coach to forget it and headed for the showers.

 

In the locker room, the coach caught up to Bobby and finally persuaded him to wrestle another bout. It wasn't right, but Bobby liked his younger adversary and decided--"What the heck!" Believe or not, that one more match turned into five more match-like situations, for a total of seven elimination bouts with the same opponent. Most unfair, I would say, even for a nobody in the sport, but Bobby was an internationally-known, world-class wrestler at the time.

 

Now here's the kicker. Douglas won six matches (with the seventh ending in a draw), and both wrestlers were physically beaten up after this weeklong endurance contest. Less than two weeks later, Bobby competed in the 1970 World Championships physically drained, then he suffered a concussion in the first match, and was unable to place in the event. I wonder what Douglas would have done healthy, wrestling only two instead of seven grueling U.S. trial matches prior to the competition. We'll never know.

 

There are two redeeming outcomes from this travesty of justice. First, Bobby Douglas was selected as the 1970 Outstanding U.S. Wrestler. And second, nobody except Bridgeport Ohio's Bobby Douglas can say he won six out of seven matches against one who many consider to be America's greatest wrestler of all times--DAN GABLE!


Return to the West Virginia Mat Thoughts Index Page

Return to the WV-Mat front page

 

Updated October 12, 1997

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I guess it depends on who you ask. Many indeed feel that Douglas was robbed of an opportunity to perform his best at the Olympics as he was injured in having to beat Gable over and over in order to capture the spot on the Olympic team. I'm not sure I call that a robbery, but certainly a travesty. Others do use the word robbery in order to describe the situation.

Come on "robbed" that is unfair to everyone involved.

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Actually, if you read my initial post carefully, I was trying to emphasize Kolat's unique style, not so much his accompishments which were great as well.

What was his "style" that you speak of?

 

Kolat was an innovator. His flexibility was pretty sick to boot.

Ok why do you think he was a innovator? I never really thought that of him that way when I watched him wrestle. I thought he was extremely physically ready to wrestle right out of HS but never was impressed with his conditioning. I saw him lose as a true freshman against the Ohio St kid can not remember his name right now but in that match was just beat by a better upper classman. To me Kolat was a very good college wrestler but not a innovator like a Sanders, Gable, Schalles, Smith or Askren.

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I think it was WIN Magazine that voted Kolat the best high school wrestler over the last 20 years. One of my favorites.

 

I'm from Pa and saw Kolat wrestle in high school, and have also seen all the high school greats of the past 30 years, and nobody is even close to the style, creativity, and total dominance of his 4 years.

 

There are many who can claim better or similar college stats and styles, but purely from a high school perspective, nobody can be mentioned in the same breath.

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I guess it depends on who you ask. Many indeed feel that Douglas was robbed of an opportunity to perform his best at the Olympics as he was injured in having to beat Gable over and over in order to capture the spot on the Olympic team. I'm not sure I call that a robbery, but certainly a travesty. Others do use the word robbery in order to describe the situation.

Come on "robbed" that is unfair to everyone involved.

 

 

That's exactly the point. It was extremely unfair to everybody involved, including the USA which had their representative at far less than 100% for the tournament given the grueling and unusual requirement just to qualify for the team. I'm not sure I agree with robbery, but extremely unfair and a travesty no doubt.

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I guess it depends on who you ask. Many indeed feel that Douglas was robbed of an opportunity to perform his best at the Olympics as he was injured in having to beat Gable over and over in order to capture the spot on the Olympic team. I'm not sure I call that a robbery, but certainly a travesty. Others do use the word robbery in order to describe the situation.

Come on "robbed" that is unfair to everyone involved.

Of course he was "robbed" as something was taken away from him unjustly. To be specific, he was robbed of his opportunity to wrestle in peak physical condition at the World Championships due to all the extra matches that he had to endure after he had beaten Gable fair and square. That's very clear from the article, as it states the following:

Douglas won six matches (with the seventh ending in a draw), and both wrestlers were physically beaten up after this weeklong endurance contest. Less than two weeks later, Bobby competed in the 1970 World Championships physically drained...

x

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Guys, I wrestled with Kolat his first two seasons at Penn State. I was 2nd string behind him and wrestled with an awesome group, probably one of the most talented practice groups I could ever imagine. It was me, Kolat, Sanshiro Abe, John Hughes, Jeff Prescott, Shawn Nelson, and Russ Hughes. These guys were all studs!

 

I will never forget the first day of practice. We were all sitting there waiting for practice to start and Kolat called me out to go some takedowns before practice started. I almost **** myself. Anyways I got up and went at him and got in real deep with a sweep single and that was when I learned about his double jointed knees. We had a serious scramble and I almost took him down, but of course after about a 45 sec. scramble he came out on top. I didn't even come close to scoring on him again for the next six months then I finally hit a good Hi-C switch to double takedown on him and I jumped up and let out a "Yes" scream as I was psyched. He was pissed. We got back up and he faked an inside trip and when I stepped out he lateral dropped me. It was humiliating. I got back up went at him again and did the same exact thing for a 2nd time in a row just to prove a point, and it's not like I was just some slouch. I was a NYS Champ, HS All-American, and had made the Tour Du Monde World Team that year and he literrally toyed with me like a was a JV wrestler. And whomever it was that said he was known for working the arms on top was dead on. My shoulders are still damaged from him arm barring me or him laying his knee on my head as he would yank on my shoulders.

 

On paper Kolat might not be the most accomplished of all time but as far as raw natural talent there was never and there still isn't anybody in his league. You guys also have to understand a few things. First off, he started as a TRUE FRESHMAN (No Redshirt) and he had a ton of pressure on him. Also, back then there weren't video clips, there was no internet, not very many wrestling clubs, not nearly as many tournaments or matches. If you wanted to be good you needed to search for some good coaching and work hard. Someone also mentioned the issue about cutting weight. It is completely different now. I weighed about 158 and wrestled 134. When I couldn't beat Kolat I went up to 142 and couldn't beat John Hughes (4X PA State Champ, NCAA Champ, Olympic Alternate, many other titles), then I decided to suck down to 126 just to get beat up by Abe (4X All-American, NCAA Champ, 2X Olympian). It was much tougher to stay focused back then when you had to cut that much weight (Not knocking anyone from the present). The reason I named those guys credentials is bc on Kolats good days I would watch him toss them around like rag dolls. I'll never forget one day when he beat the crap out of our assistant coach Troy Sunderland (No offense Troy) who was an NCAA runner up at 165 lbs. the year before (should have one, controversial call on a takedown vs. Troy Steiner from Iowa in the finals). Sunderland was twice his size.

 

You also have to keep some other things in mind. Kolat was an unorthodoxed wrestler. He was never comfortable wrestling at Penn State bc our coaches were always in his head telling him not to do any funk or turning the reverse way against the knee when someone had a single on him. He never felt comfortable and ultimately was why he transferred to Lock Haven. As a True Freshman he beat returning NCAA Champ Terry Steiner in the semis, and was about to win a NCAA title over TJ Jaworsky (3X NCAA Champ) and got caught in a 5 pt. move in the last 30 seconds. Same thing happened the next year vs. Babak Mohammadi from Oregon St. in the semis. He basically walked off the mat and told everyone on the spot that he was transferring bc he couldn't wrestle with the coaches in his ears.

 

Also think about how when he was in HS that he lost by a point to Ken Chertow in the Midlands which back then was almost as hard as NCAAs. And if I remember correctly he beat Jack Cuvo (2X NCAA Champ, 1988 Olympic Gold) when he was still in HS. He almost won the Midlands as a sophomore and JR. in HS. That is ridiculous!

 

Then look at his international career. He has the most controversial career of All-Time. The US is a target to FILA in the Olympics, and Kolat was a always huge target bc of his tenacious style that had never been seen before.

 

Look at the 97 World Championships... That was the match when he wrestled Iran's Kenari, and Kenari untied his laces like 7 seven times every time he was winded and that is why we now have the rule to tape our shoes.

 

Then look at the 98 World Championships. He beat Barzakov from Bulgaria only to have FILA overturn the match when the Bulgarians protested.... imagine how devastated he was and then look how he wrestled back 6 straight matches to get 3rd. Then FILA changed the rule that a match cannot be overturned but must be re-wrestled.

 

So that brings us to the 1999 World Championships... A lot of you probably don't even know that he wrestled the whole 1999 World Championship with a SEVERELY seperated shoulder. He beat Ukraines Kedeev (World Champ) with a SEVERELY seperated shoulder to get into the finals only to have it protested and FILA who made them re-wrestle the match 30 minutes later. That was devastating to his focus and put The Ukraines Kedeev on Cloud 9 by giving him another shot... and he still almost beat him again with one shoulder (He lost 2-1 in OT). He had to change his whole style for that tourny, he had to score early and then stall which was not his style.

 

You guys can't make comparisons like Abas? Abas was great but he did not wrestle in the Big Ten. Do you guys realize that year in and year out bt 6-8 of the Top Ten teams in NCAAs are Big Ten schools? Numbers and Stats don't always tell the story. Kolat could have easily been 4X NCAA Champ, and multiple time World and Olympic champ. He is the best wrestler I have ever wrestled or even seen. And yes, he is heavy on your head with those forearms.

 

P.S. The guy from Ohio State was Dunyasha Yetts. Kolat avenged that match later in the season in a dual meet and choked him out from a front headlock and then cement mixered him and when the ref called the pin and Yetts was unconscious there was almost a bench clearing brawl....

 

P.S.S. - Whomever brought up the Stadium run, it was just Kolat and Sunny (Abe). We all had to run every single row in Beaver Stadium. At the time I believe there were 115,000 seats. And we didn't go up a row and over. We went up a row, back down the same row, and the over to the next until you finished that level and then we had to do the 2nd level. It was tough, but that is college wrestling. They would even make us run the ramps sometimes afterwards. The Mt. Nittany run wasn't fun either... 5 miles to get there, 1 mile up the steepest mountain you could imagine, and then 5 miles back... 12 miles total. Coming down was dangerous, numerous guys got hurt on the way down so you had to go slower coming down with made it even harder. They made us do it 5 days in a row once! It was a rough week...

 

PSU 3-PEAT NCAA CHAMPS BABY!!!!

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