Kevin, Mark and Cael, who wins?

[superold 34]

Schultz never faced anyone like Sanderson either.

 

As good as Banach was, he was not Cael Sanderson.

No one except Larry Owings has faced an undefeated through college (and HS in Gable's case) opponent. Larry managed a 4 pointer near the end for the win.

 

Not saying he is Cael's equal, but without Schultz, Banach would have been the first four timer and would be included in all the "greatest" discussions.

 

We don't know for sure if Banach would have won if Schultz stayed at 167 that year.

[ccrider55 18]

Schultz never faced anyone like Sanderson either.

 

As good as Banach was, he was not Cael Sanderson.

No one except Larry Owings has faced an undefeated through college (and HS in Gable's case) opponent. Larry managed a 4 pointer near the end for the win.

 

Not saying he is Cael's equal, but without Schultz, Banach would have been the first four timer and would be included in all the "greatest" discussions.

 

We don't know for sure if Banach would have won if Schultz stayed at 167 that year.

We do know Banach scored a fall in the semis over that years third placer, Charlie Heller.

[superold 34]

We don't know for sure if Banach would have won if Schultz stayed at 167 that year.

We do know Banach scored a fall in the semis over that years third placer, Charlie Heller.

 

I think Hummel had a real shot to beat Banach that year. Banach was the favorite, but I'm not close to 100% confident that he would have won that match.

[KTG119 820]

We don't know for sure if Banach would have won if Schultz stayed at 167 that year.

We do know Banach scored a fall in the semis over that years third placer, Charlie Heller.

 

I think Hummel had a real shot to beat Banach that year. Banach was the favorite, but I'm not close to 100% confident that he would have won that match.

 

did Hummel and Banach wrestle that regular season? Two ISU v Iowa duals? I know Hummel wrestled Schultz real tough in semis and on other occasions during their careers.

[gutfirst 220]

Schultz never faced anyone like Sanderson either.

 

As good as Banach was, he was not Cael Sanderson.

 

good point. i don't think sanderson would beat banach in folk either.

[HuskyHero133 52]

Schultz never faced anyone like Sanderson either.

 

As good as Banach was, he was not Cael Sanderson.

 

good point. i don't think sanderson would beat banach in folk either.

 

Really?

 

The only undefeated folkstyle guy ever who won (while still basically wrestling like a folkstyler) an Olympic title a couple years outta college?

 

Interesting...

[TBar1977 4,533]

At the rate we are going Cael will have a few dozen college fantasy losses.

 

You can only know what actually happened, and Cael was undefeated in college folk. Then, when he went to free style he won 3 national championships and a gold medal between age 22-24.

[HuskyHero133 52]

At the rate we are going Cael will have a few done college fantasy losses.

 

You can only know what actually happened, and Cael was undefeated in college folk. Then, when he went to free style he won 3 national championships and a gold medal between age 22-24.

 

Soon he'll have as many fantasy losses as Dake.

[Tech_fall15 1]

Cael beats them both between the other two well no one cares about 2nd anyway.

[TBar1977 4,533]

At the rate we are going Cael will have a few dozen college fantasy losses.

 

You can only know what actually happened, and Cael was undefeated in college folk. Then, when he went to free style he won 3 national championships and a gold medal between age 22-24.

 

Soon he'll have as many fantasy losses as Dake.

 

Pretty funny. :lol:

[Plasmodium 2,257]

Schultz never faced anyone like Sanderson either.

 

As good as Banach was, he was not Cael Sanderson.

 

good point. i don't think sanderson would beat banach in folk either.

 

Really?

 

The only undefeated folkstyle guy ever who won (while still basically wrestling like a folkstyler) an Olympic title a couple years outta college?

 

Interesting...

Marcus LeVesseur was also undefeated and a four timer.

[HuskyHero133 52]

Schultz never faced anyone like Sanderson either.

 

As good as Banach was, he was not Cael Sanderson.

 

good point. i don't think sanderson would beat banach in folk either.

 

Really?

 

The only undefeated folkstyle guy ever who won (while still basically wrestling like a folkstyler) an Olympic title a couple years outta college?

 

Interesting...

Marcus LeVesseur was also undefeated and a four timer.

 

LeVesseur was an undefeated 4x D1 champ??

 

Guess you learn something new every day. I always thought he was in the non scholarship Division 3.

[Plasmodium 2,257]

 

Really?

 

The only undefeated folkstyle guy ever who won (while still basically wrestling like a folkstyler) an Olympic title a couple years outta college?

 

Interesting...

Marcus LeVesseur was also undefeated and a four timer.

 

LeVesseur was an undefeated 4x D1 champ??

 

Guess you learn something new every day. I always thought he was in the non scholarship Division 3.

My bad. I thought you specified folkstyle. Is competition relevant?

[ccrider55 18]

Schultz never faced anyone like Sanderson either.

 

As good as Banach was, he was not Cael Sanderson.

It could be argued Cael never faced a Schultz or Banach.

 

Banach/Schultz NCAA final prevented Banach becoming the first four timer.

[HuskyHero133 52]

 

Really?

 

The only undefeated folkstyle guy ever who won (while still basically wrestling like a folkstyler) an Olympic title a couple years outta college?

 

Interesting...

Marcus LeVesseur was also undefeated and a four timer.

 

LeVesseur was an undefeated 4x D1 champ??

 

Guess you learn something new every day. I always thought he was in the non scholarship Division 3.

My bad. I thought you specified folkstyle. Is competition relevant?

 

Not sure the point you are making in regards to the competition.

 

Everyone we are discussing wrestled in Division 1. The highest level of folkstyle competition.

 

Division 3 is not relevant in that discussion, Just like going undefeated in high school is not comparable to undefeated in D3 no matter what style we're talking about.

[HuskyHero133 52]

Schultz never faced anyone like Sanderson either.

 

As good as Banach was, he was not Cael Sanderson.

It could be argued Cael never faced a Schultz or Banach.

 

Banach/Schultz NCAA final prevented Banach becoming the first four timer.

 

And lets say that the title was guaranteed to Banach without Schultz (nothing is gauranteed) who prevented Banach from going undefeated like Cael did?

 

Was Schultz his ONLY loss? I don't think so. And a few of Cael's opponents were pretty tough... I think one of them (after being an Olympian himself) has even been dominating in the UFC.

 

Its hard for Cael to face someone like a Schultz or Banach when he WAS that guy, except doing even better.

[ccrider55 18]

Schultz never faced anyone like Sanderson either.

 

As good as Banach was, he was not Cael Sanderson.

It could be argued Cael never faced a Schultz or Banach.

 

Banach/Schultz NCAA final prevented Banach becoming the first four timer.

 

And lets say that the title was guaranteed to Banach without Schultz (nothing is gauranteed) who prevented Banach from going undefeated like Cael did?

 

Was Schultz his ONLY loss? I don't think so. And a few of Cael's opponents were pretty tough... I think one of them (after being an Olympian himself) has even been dominating in the UFC.

 

Its hard for Cael to face someone like a Schultz or Banach when he WAS that guy, except doing even better.

You misunderstand me. I'd favor Cael over Schultz in folk, but not overwhelmingly. It'd be interesting to see if his ankle pic series could get through the defense, or if he could avoid going upper body.

 

"Its hard for Cael to face someone like a Schultz or Banach when he WAS that guy,"

That's the point, there were two of them at the same time. And Mark hadn't really started wrestling until jr. in HS. Undefeated is the end all when discussing greatest career, but isn't necessarily definitive when theorizing about a senior Schultz v senior Sanderson folkstyle match up.

[superold 34]

Schultz never faced anyone like Sanderson either.

 

As good as Banach was, he was not Cael Sanderson.

It could be argued Cael never faced a Schultz or Banach.

 

Banach/Schultz NCAA final prevented Banach becoming the first four timer.

 

Not necessarily. There was likely a good possibility that would have happened, but it's definitely not a certainty.

[TBar1977 4,533]

You misunderstand me. I'd favor Cael over Schultz in folk, but not overwhelmingly. It'd be interesting to see if his ankle pic series could get through the defense, or if he could avoid going upper body.

 

Cael's ankle picks are set up via the same collar ties and hand fighting that Schultz and Banach used. Cael would get guys off balance and leaning thru the use of hand fighting, collar ties and circling and then he'd reach for an ankle that was only about a foot away from his hand.

 

Has anyone ever consistently prevented Cael from getting the ankle pick?

[TripNSweep 763]

You misunderstand me. I'd favor Cael over Schultz in folk, but not overwhelmingly. It'd be interesting to see if his ankle pic series could get through the defense, or if he could avoid going upper body.

 

Cael's ankle picks are set up via the same collar ties and hand fighting that Schultz and Banach used. Cael would get guys off balance and leaning thru the use of hand fighting, collar ties and circling and then he'd reach for an ankle that was only about a foot away from his hand.

 

Has anyone ever consistently prevented Cael from getting the ankle pick?

 

Romero seemed to figure it out.

[ccrider55 18]

You misunderstand me. I'd favor Cael over Schultz in folk, but not overwhelmingly. It'd be interesting to see if his ankle pic series could get through the defense, or if he could avoid going upper body.

 

Cael's ankle picks are set up via the same collar ties and hand fighting that Schultz and Banach used. Cael would get guys off balance and leaning thru the use of hand fighting, collar ties and circling and then he'd reach for an ankle that was only about a foot away from his hand.

 

Has anyone ever consistently prevented Cael from getting the ankle pick?

 

Romero seemed to figure it out.

And domestically Fuller (not close to the GOAT conversation) had a bit of success.

[Plasmodium 2,257]

You misunderstand me. I'd favor Cael over Schultz in folk, but not overwhelmingly. It'd be interesting to see if his ankle pic series could get through the defense, or if he could avoid going upper body.

 

Cael's ankle picks are set up via the same collar ties and hand fighting that Schultz and Banach used. Cael would get guys off balance and leaning thru the use of hand fighting, collar ties and circling and then he'd reach for an ankle that was only about a foot away from his hand.

 

Has anyone ever consistently prevented Cael from getting the ankle pick?

 

Sajidov

[TBar1977 4,533]

You misunderstand me. I'd favor Cael over Schultz in folk, but not overwhelmingly. It'd be interesting to see if his ankle pic series could get through the defense, or if he could avoid going upper body.

 

Cael's ankle picks are set up via the same collar ties and hand fighting that Schultz and Banach used. Cael would get guys off balance and leaning thru the use of hand fighting, collar ties and circling and then he'd reach for an ankle that was only about a foot away from his hand.

 

Has anyone ever consistently prevented Cael from getting the ankle pick?

 

Romero seemed to figure it out.

 

Except for the three ankle picks in the Olympic semifinals that Cael won over Romero. Sajidov got blown out in the other semifinal I think. So Cael did OK that year. Winning Gold still counts around here I hope.

 

[armspin 257]

Carl ankle picked Ronero and Sajidov- and multiple other world champs- just fine. It's just that in some of the other matches his opponent scored more.

 

Saritov is the only guy I can think of who shut out (old) Sanderson winning on clinches. I don't really remember much of hue he did it besides holding low position and backing up a lot.

[Plasmodium 2,257]

When did he ankle pick Sajidov?