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TBar1977

Why Cael Sanderson Is a Great Recruiter (link)

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ocho, I posted a nice recruiting article that focused on Penn State's Cael Sanderson, nothing more or less. You took that as an opportunity to cheap shot him. You got what you wanted.

You posted an article and titled a thread "Why Cael Sanderson Is a Great Recruiter". I took it as an opportunity to share my opinion on Cael's recuiting, nothing more nothing less. You took that as an opportunity to get offended. You got what you wanted.

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That's not quite the picture presented in a Pennlive article last July:

 

“He (Sanderson) said that they didn’t feel Thomas was the right fit and maybe the verbal agreement was done too quickly and maybe they should have put a little more thought into it,’’ David Haines said about his conversation with Sanderson.

 

Source: http://www.pennlive.com/sports/index.ss ... er_default

 

It didn't sound like it was Haines' choice at all, it sounded like Haines was uninvited. Let's not keep making it seem like the kid backed out, it was the other way around!

 

You realize that's from the kids dad?

 

Not saying it didn't happen as he said but when you are so close to a situation you can come away from it with a skewed perspective.

 

We don't know what Cael said to them or how he said it.

 

Absolutely, I realize this is coming from Tommy Haine's father. He also said this:

 

“What upsets me is we see comments that if he can’t handle the competition, maybe he shouldn’t be at Penn State,’’ Haines said.

 

Given the specificity of details in the article cited, and given the lack of any other evidence or response to the contrary, a reasonably unbiased observer would probably conclude that things went down pretty much as Mr. Haines described; what is maddening in this, however, is the continued portrayal by SOME PSU fans of Tommy Haines as the one who backed out of the commitment, presumably because he was not up to the challange.

 

Why do the Penn State faithful continue to sling mud at Tommy Haines? It seems to me he made a smart choice in selecting Ohio State - he gets to wrestle for a national title contender, he gets treated with respect, he presumably gets a pretty good scholarship (which he would not have had at PSU) and he gets an opportunity to challenge Nevills potentially three times a year - dual meet, B1G Tourney, and NCAA's. And we also don't really know - would he REALLY have had an opportunity to challenge Nevills at PSU?

 

And don't get me wrong, I'm not taking issue (at least not based on the information available) with what Cael did in all of this, I think he did what he believed had to do. But the suggestion that Tommy Haines is somehow at fault in this incident, frankly, just stinks!

 

Show me any posts that "continues to portray" Haines negatively or "sling Mud" his way by any PSU fans. Guess what, you can't because there are none. You're just making things up so you can take issue with it. I don't know who is has a more sour grapes mentality, you or ocho.

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Show me any posts in the last 6 months that "continues to portray" Haines negatively or "sling Mud" his way by any PSU fans. Guess what, you can't because there are none. You're just making things up so you can take issue with it. I don't know who is has a more sour grapes mentality, you or ocho.

 

I don't think anybody is spewing personal attacks at the kid. The problem is that in a thread that wants to praise Cael for his awesome recruiting prowess, when a poster brings up something that may portray Cael in a negative light, the blame is immediately shifted to Haines for "not wanting to compete" with Nevills. It's as if to the PSU posters, Cael is infallible. The truth is that Cael has made some controversial decisions (Andrew Long, Bubba Jenkins, Haines), and all of the blame for these situations cannot solely fall on the student athletes.

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Billy, what did Cael do wrong with regards to Haines?

 

I say he offered him a spot and said they would talk schollie money later. Then Nevills comes along and some money has to go to him, and there is less for Haines and he opts out. What in all of that was "wrong" or acting in bad faith by Cael?

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I would like to clarify a few things.

 

First, I read this article prior to TBar posting it, thought it was a nice article (number two in a 4 article series, good publicity for wrestling). If I wanted to start Cael bashing on my own regard I could have easily started my own thread and went tearing away (I maybe could have even found something in the first article to go on a rage about considering how much I think Cael is the devil :twisted: :roll: ). I didn't. I did however respond to a thread about the article though. My bad, apparently I missed the forum policy change that TBar and superold wrote that only similar opinions are welcome in threads they start. If you don't want other opinions, then don't start a thread.

 

Secondly, I am a Minnesota Fan first, but I am also a Wrestling Fan. I follow many programs very closely. Look in my closet and you will find about 15 different school's wrestling t-shirts (even PSU). Look on my walls and you will find many signed items from different wrestlers (even multiple signed Cael items). I love this sport and love to discuss different topics within it. I understand that occasionally (perhaps frequently) my opinions will differ from other posters and I accept that. I understand that not all posters will be able to accept that my opinions differ from their opinions.

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So your opinion of Sanderson, and keeping in mind that you are a rabid Minnesota fan, is that kids should be wary of him and not buy into Penn State. Gotcha.

 

Penn State is running scared now. :lol:

My opinion of Sanderson's recruiting, based on some "incidents", would make me (if I were a blue chip recruit, again this is a hypothetical scenario cuz believe it or not my D1 eligibility has expired without receiving a single call) question Cael's "pitch" when it comes to recruiting. I am sure you translated that as me saying "Blah Blah Cael Sucks, go to Minnesota." I can restate it again if you need. I understand your opinion is different, I apologize my opinion upsets you. In the future I will refrain from discussing Cael's recruiting in a Cael recruiting thread.

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ocho, your last post is fine. Well done. :D Nice devil admission you put in there. :D

glad you enjoyed it. Now that we have that settled.

 

Who do you think Cael's first call was to yesterday?

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Show me any posts that "continues to portray" Haines negatively or "sling Mud" his way by any PSU fans.

 

Well, Tigsey, if you want to drag this out - look no further than the post I originally responded to in this thread:

 

Cael recruited Haines, so what/ Nevills comes along and he too wants to commit to Penn State. They BOTH could have come to Penn State if they wanted to, but Haines opted to not compete with Nevills and instead chose Ohio State.

 

Now, maybe you believe stating that Haines "opted to not compete with Nevills" isn't a negative, but as indicated in the interview with Haines' father, this was certainly hurtful to the young man involved.

 

And then you have others who continue to suggest that Mr. Haines' account of matters is somehow untruthful?

 

You guys should really let this one go. At the very least Cael made a PR blunder, but there is no evidence there was any rules violation; and I'll give credit to him for being man enough to go face to face to break the news to the Haines family. But folks should try to stop spinning this that it was Haines who "opted not to compete".

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ocho, your last post is fine. Well done. :D Nice devil admission you put in there. :D

glad you enjoyed it. Now that we have that settled.

 

Who do you think Cael's first call was to yesterday?

 

Nick Piccininni or Myles Martin, but I can only guess.

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Show me any posts that "continues to portray" Haines negatively or "sling Mud" his way by any PSU fans.

 

Well, Tigsey, if you want to drag this out - look no further than the post I originally responded to in this thread:

 

Cael recruited Haines, so what/ Nevills comes along and he too wants to commit to Penn State. They BOTH could have come to Penn State if they wanted to, but Haines opted to not compete with Nevills and instead chose Ohio State.

 

Now, maybe you believe stating that Haines "opted to not compete with Nevills" isn't a negative, but as indicated in the interview with Haines' father, this was certainly hurtful to the young man involved.

 

And then you have others who continue to suggest that Mr. Haines' account of matters is somehow untruthful?

 

You guys should really let this one go. At the very least Cael made a PR blunder, but there is no evidence there was any rules violation; and I'll give credit to him for being man enough to go face to face to break the news to the Haines family. But folks should try to stop spinning this that it was Haines who "opted not to compete".

 

Semantics. The kid chose Ohio State immediately after Nevills chose Penn State. I think the reasons are money issues and the fact recruited Nevills after previously recruiting Haines, but what was cael supposed to do, turn Nevills away? No way.

 

Cael did what was right for his program, and Haines did what he considered right for himself. No one is complaining about it except Haines' father and few fans of opposing programs. Penn State fans moved on.

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Cael did what was right for his program, and Haines did what he considered right for himself. No one is complaining about it except Haines' father and few fans of opposing programs. Penn State fans moved on.

 

hah, what would penn state fans be complaining about?

 

i'm not sure i would do anything differently if i were in Cael's or Haines' shoes, but to move you have to accept that Cael doesn't come out of the situation smelling like roses. luckily it was no big deal and it appears that everything worked out in the end.

 

being able to recruit the two best guys in the same weight class is a great thing for penn state. but youre going to catch some flak for it. just deal with it bro.

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. . .

 

Haines and Marstellar are great wrestlers. Haines isn't quite at the level of Nick Nevills, so that makes Cael's decision at Hwt. last year completely understandable. Chance needed a change of scenery as has been recounted many times by now.

 

Yeah, my first wife needed a change of scenery too.

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i'm not sure i would do anything differently if i were in Cael's shoes

 

OK, so far so good.

 

 

it appears that everything worked out in the end.

 

Yes, it did.

 

 

being able to recruit the two best guys in the same weight class is a great thing for penn state. but youre going to catch some flak for it.

 

Why?

 

 

but you have to accept that Cael doesn't come out of the situation smelling like roses.

 

Again, why? He did nothing at all wrong. In fact, what he did was right for all copncerned because he offered each wrestler a spot on our roster, albeit likely for different amounts of money but that is how recruiting works.

 

Should John Smith apologize to the umpteen middle weights he recruited for landing Marstellar AFTER landing each of them? Should their fathers be complaining about THAT? No, and no again.

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Tbar tries to be so objective he really does, but it prevents him from seeing both perspectives in this situation. Recruiting is not black and white, it involves people and emotions and with every decision made it effects people and their emotions. Lastly, none of us know what did or did not occur during those conversations so either of us pretending like Cael is completely in the wrong or completely in the right is foolish cuz we will never know and can only wonder/guess.

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...As indicated in the interview with Haines' father, this was certainly hurtful to the young man involved.

 

Are you saying that Cael did something wrong? Doesn't Cael have the right to recruit the kids that he wants to wrestle for his program?

 

But folks should try to stop spinning this that it was Haines who "opted not to compete.

 

How exactly is it spinning to state that Haines chose to not compete? I thought that was a factual statement.

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Tbar tries to be so objective he really does, but it prevents him from seeing both perspectives in this situation. Recruiting is not black and white, it involves people and emotions and with every decision made it effects people and their emotions.

 

Could you elaborate on this? To what extent is a coach held responsible for a recruits emotions?

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Tbar tries to be so objective he really does, but it prevents him from seeing both perspectives in this situation. Recruiting is not black and white, it involves people and emotions and with every decision made it effects people and their emotions.

 

Could you elaborate on this? To what extent is a coach held responsible for a recruits emotions?

Could you respond with something other than a question, just once?

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