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TBar1977

Why Cael Sanderson Is a Great Recruiter (link)

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I remember when Marcus Levesseur left Minnesota J Rob stated about Marcus "but he didn't want to wrestle". Off hand comment amounting to nothing, or an "incident" from J Rob's closet?

 

You catching on why you shouldn't make something out of nothing, ocho?

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I remember when Marcus Levesseur left Minnesota J Rob stated about Marcus "but he didn't want to wrestle". Off hand comment amounting to nothing, or an "incident" from J Rob's closet?

 

You catching on why you shouldn't make something out of nothing, ocho?

Marcus leaving was a big deal that still gets brought up today. If you don't believe me please read ur post I quoted. And to this day very few people know the whole story. Sounds familiar. What was ur post supposed to prove? That people pay attention to what blue chip recruits do?

 

J has been questioned for plenty of things throughout his career as have other coaches. It's not just Cael. Time heals all. Just breathe TBarsuperold

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At least 3 inaccuracies that need to be corrected:

1. Penn State did not recruit Lizak: Lizak took an official visit to PSU last fall.

 

2. Haines immediately chose Ohio State: Haines traveled to Cornell and Maryland (at least) before visiting Columbus.

 

3. Haines chose to not compete with Nevills: OK, this one is more circumstantial -- if he didn't think he could beat a fellow incoming FR, then why go to compete with an experienced returning national R12 guy (Tavanello) for 2 years after shirting? He instead could've been a near-guaranteed 4-yr starter at Maryland (being coached by a 2x national champ and Olympian at his weight class), or at Cornell, or at least a dozen other schools if he had expanded his recruitment.

 

It's likely true in the clinical sense -- he did choose to go elsewhere (unless Cael told him he wouldn't even be allowed to walk on, which we can infer from Mr. Haines' comments about "fit" but don't absolutely know). But it's hard to defend in the mind-reading sense, which is almost always what people mean by this.

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I remember when Marcus Levesseur left Minnesota J Rob stated about Marcus "but he didn't want to wrestle". Off hand comment amounting to nothing, or an "incident" from J Rob's closet?

 

You catching on why you shouldn't make something out of nothing, ocho?

Marcus leaving was a big deal that still gets brought up today. If you don't believe me please read ur post I quoted. And to this day very few people know the whole story. Sounds familiar. What was ur post supposed to prove? That people pay attention to what blue chip recruits do?

 

J has been questioned for plenty of things throughout his career as have other coaches. It's not just Cael. Time heals all. Just breathe TBarsuperold

 

The point I am making is that you can play the blame game with any coach. If the coach is successful enough there is always going to be something that happens, through zero fault of his own, that opposing fans can hold onto to try and knock him down a peg.

 

I doubt J Rob did a damned thing to cause Marcus to leave Minnesota just as Cael did nothing wrong in regards to Haines. That is why your comments implying he should not be trusted or that you would not buy into his recruiting pitch are baseless and should be viewed in the vein they were taken.

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I am not putting full blame on Cael, because as I said I have no idea what took place during the recruiting conversations. I do feel that Cael does not get to walk blame free either (which is your stance on the issue). So you are telling me that Cael had nothing to do with Haines enrolling at Ohio State this upcoming year, instead of PSU?

 

Some rumored scenarios suggest that J Rob may have been part of the reason Marcus left (again very few people actually know, so all us small folk can do is speculate). Whether right or wrong, the coach is held at least somewhat responsible in basically every situation. If J Rob lost a top recruit like Marcus this past year, you would bet I would have concerns when I met with J Rob and would be curious what took place. As I said time heals all. See how I don't throw a temper tantrum when someone talks about "my coach".

 

I never said Cael shouldn't be trusted or that I would not buy into his recruiting pitch. I said that I would proceed with caution and not treat everything he was saying as gold. Meaning; I would still listen to the pitch and take what he offered me at face value. Which in all honesty is probably good advice for any recruit to prevent getting caught up in the moment of recruiting.

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So you are telling me that Cael had nothing to do with Haines enrolling at Ohio State this upcoming year, instead of PSU?

 

Some rumored scenarios suggest that J Rob may have been part of the reason Marcus left (again very few people actually know, so all us small folk can do is speculate). Whether right or wrong, the coach is held at least somewhat responsible in basically every situation. If J Rob lost a top recruit like Marcus this past year, you would bet I would have concerns when I met with J Rob and would be curious what took place. As I said time heals all. See how I don't throw a temper tantrum when someone talks about "my coach".

 

I never said Cael shouldn't be trusted or that I would not buy into his recruiting pitch. I said that I would proceed with caution and not treat everything he was saying as gold. Meaning; I would still listen to the pitch and take what he offered me at face value. Which in all honesty is probably good advice for any recruit to prevent getting caught up in the moment of recruiting.

 

ocho, the way I would characterize what happens in these situations is to just state what happened. J Rob recruited and brought Marcus to Minnesota. At some point Marcus became unhappy and left. Unless J Rob did something terrible to him, which I seriously doubt is the case, then it is what it is. The kid wasn't happy and he left. Nothing to do about it at all. How many kids stuck it out at Minny and did very well? Lots. Marcus' situation belongs to him and nobody else, really.

 

The same goes for Cael and Haines. The details aren't as important as the fact that Haines wasn't totally happy with how it worked out. Not his fault. Not Cael's fault. Not Nick's fault. Not anyone's fault. It is what it is. Haines goes to OSU and Nevills to Penn State. Everyone won in the end. Glass ended up 1/2 FULL for everyone.

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Some numbers for you since 2011, most cumulative team points at NCAAs:

 

1) Penn St 483.5

2) Minnesota 385.5

3) Oklahoma St 352.5

4) Iowa 345.5

5) Cornell 314

 

FIFY Penn St 289 , DT/Ruth 194.5

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Some numbers for you since 2011, most cumulative team points at NCAAs:

 

1) Penn St 483.5

2) Minnesota 385.5

3) Oklahoma St 352.5

4) Iowa 345.5

5) Cornell 314

 

FIFY Penn St 289 , DT/Ruth 194.5

 

Ruth and Taylor were never part of Penn State? Who knew?

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Some numbers for you since 2011, most cumulative team points at NCAAs:

 

1) Penn St 483.5

2) Minnesota 385.5

3) Oklahoma St 352.5

4) Iowa 345.5

5) Cornell 314

 

FIFY Penn St 289 , DT/Ruth 194.5

 

Ruth and Taylor were never part of Penn State? Who knew?

 

Yea, the Chicago Bulls wouldn't have been so good without Jordan and Pippin either, lol.

 

Not that it really matters, but if you eliminate Minnesota's top two scorers from each of the past 4 nationals as well, highly doubtful they make up almost 100 points.

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What caused you to make the decision to transfer to Augsburg?

 

LeVesseur: One main thing was that I wasn't happy with everything that was going on at the U and in the wrestling program. And there were a few other key things, like family issues and problems, and then personal and social life problems. Those things just kind of attacked at one time. I just thought, 'OK, what's the best case scenario? And what's the next best scenario?' I spent a lot of time thinking about it. It really didn't help too much that my roommate, Cory Cooperman, was in the same position. Obviously, since we were roommates, we talked about whether we should transfer or stay and fight through it. The best choice for me was to cut ties and focus on school. That was my biggest focus my first month and a half there. I was doing superb in the classroom. I was pretty much getting a 4.0. About a month and a half into it, it became a little more challenging. There were a few more parties to attend. School slipped a little bit. So I'm like, 'Hey, I need to get this in check … because obviously I want to graduate.' And then I thought, 'What about transferring across the river to Augsburg?' Within the rules, I talked to (Jeff) Swenson. He was like, 'Our door is open if that is what you want to pursue.' So it just happened that I ended up wrestling for the Augsburg Auggies.

 

http://intermatwrestle.com/articles/465 ... -LeVesseur

 

Figured I would let Levessuer speak for himself. Some vague comments that still lead to speculation, but gives an overall idea that a multitude of things lead to his decision.

 

Head coaches are the CEO's of the wrestling program. Everything that happens under their watch they are at least somewhat responsible for. That can include grades, legal, development, recruiting, fundraising, attendance, retention, etc. When something goes good or bad in an area it reflects upon the coach. Obviously some areas they deserve more blame/praise than others, but they still deserve some. I'm sure Cael can handle it, now its your turn TBar. Haines and Nevills are going to be compared side by side for the rest of their careers so don't expect this conversation to go away for the next 6 years, grab a comfy chair and some popcorn.

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The same goes for Cael and Haines. The details aren't as important as the fact that Haines wasn't totally happy with how it worked out. Not his fault. Not Cael's fault. Not Nick's fault. Not anyone's fault. It is what it is. Haines goes to OSU and Nevills to Penn State. Everyone won in the end. Glass ended up 1/2 FULL for everyone.

 

This is a very convenient argument to make. It definitely is somebody's fault. Haines was under the impression that he was welcome at Penn State/would receive scholarship money. Either Haines is at fault for making an incorrect assumption concerning the amount of money that was offered, or Cael is at fault for recruiting somebody and then walking away once a better option came along.

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Billy, there is a limited amount of money to go around in every room, and coaches can't even talk about it until July 1, so whatever ideas Haines had he was, like all recruits, making an assumption.

 

The same issues pop up at all wrestling schools. The best wrestling schools need to spread money around to very good wrestlers. That may mean some kid getting less one year, more later. There is no fault, just the rules of life within the NCAA.

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Fault definition: responsibility for a problem, mistake, bad situation, etc.

synonyms: responsibility, liability, culpability, blameworthiness, guilt

 

So the NCAA is at fault?

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I am not putting full blame on Cael, because as I said I have no idea what took place during the recruiting conversations. I do feel that Cael does not get to walk blame free either (which is your stance on the issue). So you are telling me that Cael had nothing to do with Haines enrolling at Ohio State this upcoming year, instead of PSU?

 

If you have no idea what took place, then how do you know how much blame to hand out to the people who were involved?

 

I do feel that Cael does not get to walk blame free either

 

Isn't there a possibility that Cael is completely blameless in the situation? I'm having trouble understanding how you feel that way if you can't say for certain if Cael did anything wrong.

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Can you respond without a question? TBar and super old are back at it.

 

I'm dispersing blame to all parties involved based on the limited information I have read and miles of assumptions. Not sure what is so hard to understand about my stance. There is a very small chance that the coaching staff responsible for recruiting, would not be held even a very small amount responsible when two top ten recruits decommit. I understand there is a chance I may be wrong because as I stated I wasn't involved in those conversations, but I will take my stance of all being partially responsible over the idea that no one is responsible.

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Can you respond without a question? TBar and super old are back at it.

 

I'm dispersing blame to all parties involved based on the limited information I have read and miles of assumptions. Not sure what is so hard to understand about my stance. There is a very small chance that the coaching staff responsible for recruiting, would not be held even a very small amount responsible when two top ten recruits decommit. I understand there is a chance I may be wrong because as I stated I wasn't involved in those conversations, but I will take my stance of all being partially responsible over the idea that no one is responsible.

 

You believe the coaching staff is responsible in what sense? This whole discussion could be rather pointless/trivial depending on how we use 'responsible'.

 

For example, If Haines decided to leave after Cael recruited Nevills, you could say everyone was responsible for the situation playing out the way that it did. Meaning, that if Cael hadn't recruited Nevils, Haines would still be attending PSU. So you could say that Cael (by deciding to recruit Nevils) was responsible for Haines leaving. You could say Haines was responsible for deciding to leave PSU when he wasn't asked to do so. As far as I know, he wasn't forced to stay away from the program. In a sense, Nevills was responsible for Haines leaving by deciding to attend PSU (that is if the reports are true).

 

Maybe by responsible you mean "worthy of blame", which is usually seen as a stronger sense of responsibility. Usually when someone is said to be "worthy of blame", it's because they have done something that they shouldn't have done. A type of action that most mature, intelligent people would frown upon. Something that needs to be apologized for.

 

Do you believe Cael is responsible in that way? Do you believe Cael did/said some things during the recruiting process to Haines that he probably needs to apologize for?

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Most of the services ranked Penn State's incoming class #1. With studs like Bo Nickal, Nick Nevills, Jason Nolf, and the others it is fairly easy to see why they ranked Cael's class so high.

 

Penn State is on a serious roll.

 

EDIT: BTW, Happy 4th of July everyone. We should be getting some good news around here real soon! :D

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Yea, the Chicago Bulls wouldn't have been so good without Jordan and Pippin either, lol.

 

Not that it really matters, but if you eliminate Minnesota's top two scorers from each of the past 4 nationals as well, highly doubtful they make up almost 100 points.

 

In support of that point (and these numbers come directly from trackwrestling since 2012), Dylan Ness + Tony Nelson over the past 3 years = 119.5. That puts them at 266.

 

Shall we remove Matt McDonough, Jordan Oliver, Derek St. John and Alex Dieringer as well? Let's see how that goes. Yes, DT and Ed were superduper studs. But the facts back up that Cael's teams just put up more points. That makes him a good recruiter in my book.

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Some numbers for you since 2011, most cumulative team points at NCAAs:

 

1) Penn St 483.5

2) Minnesota 385.5

3) Oklahoma St 352.5

4) Iowa 345.5

5) Cornell 314

 

FIFY Penn St 289 , DT/Ruth 194.5

 

Just to prove how dumb your argument is...

 

Penn St: 483.5 - (Taylor's 101 + Ruth's 96.5) = 286

Minnesota: 385.5 - (Nelson's 75.5 + Ness 3years of 53.5) - 2011Thorn's 18.5 = 238.5

Okie St: 352.5 - 46.5(Perry/Dieringer) - 44 (Oliver/Perry) - 38.5(Oliver/Byers) - 45(Oliver/Foster) = 178.5

Iowa: 345.5 - 33(Ramos/St. John) - 40(Ramos/St. John) - 45.5(Ramos/McDonough) - 37.5(McDonough) = 189.5

Cornell: 314 - 34.5(Garrett/Dean) - 36.5(Dake/Bosak) - 50.5(Dake/Simaz) - 42.5(Dake/Bosak) = 150

 

Any questions?

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Super old my use of responsible is kind of a blend of the two you described. Probably 80% the first, and 20% the second. Hope that makes sense. If it doesn't just shake ur head.

 

Anyway I'm going to end my portion of this discussion basically the same way I started it.

I think Cael is a great recruiter, but I have minor concerns as well. Have a great 4th everyone! USA! USA! USA!

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Anyway I'm going to end my portion of this discussion basically the same way I started it.

I think Cael is a great recruiter Have a great 4th everyone! USA! USA! USA!

 

Awesome! And I agree wholeheartedly, ocho, as you state above, Cael Sanderson IS a great recruiter! :D

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Anyway I'm going to end my portion of this discussion basically the same way I started it.

I think Cael is a great recruiter Have a great 4th everyone! USA! USA! USA!

 

Awesome! And I agree wholeheartedly, ocho, as you state above, Cael Sanderson IS a great recruiter! :D

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