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TBar1977

Why Cael Sanderson Is a Great Recruiter (link)

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it's really a no brainer. Over the past 25 years, PA has consistently produced the most All-Americans. (I think they were 2nd one year and had the most every other year, last I looked.)

 

And yet, Penn State, the premier wrestling program in PA (apologies to Lehigh and Pitt) seemed to get very little benefit out of PA's wealth of talent. The occasional kid went to PSU, but more went out of state. It was a frustrating situation for residents who wanted to see some results from our top gun.

 

That changed immediately when Cael came on the scene. Sure, some kids continued to go out of state. But more and more of the blue chip PA kids wanted PSU. The Altons, Megaludis, Gulibon, Retherford, Nolf were the kinds of kids that likely would wind up somewhere else rather than Penn State.

 

Add the none-PA kids who come here for the opportunity to wrestle for Cael: Tayler, Brown, McIntosh, Nevils, Nickel and you've suddenly got a 4 time NCAA champion where nothing was happening before.

 

Yes, Cael continues to develop talent when it gets to PSU, but a lot of talent is already there when they show up.

 

Just compare pre-Cael PSU to the current version. No other explanation is necessary.

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oldcougar just nailed it. Just compare Penn State before Cael for 30 years vs. the past 5 years with Cael, and THAT is Cael's impact and worth as a coach. I think he is the highest paid coach in wrestling and worth every penny they pay him.

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oldcougar just nailed it. Just compare Penn State before Cael for 30 years vs. the past 5 years with Cael, and THAT is Cael's impact and worth as a coach. I think he is the highest paid coach in wrestling and worth every penny they pay him.

 

Yes people talk about the situation at PSU like Cael took over for Dan Gable or something.

 

Yet in reality it was about a 60 year NCAA title drought for the entire state of PA. if it was so easy with all that PA talent it would have been happening constantly.

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oldcougar just nailed it. Just compare Penn State before Cael for 30 years vs. the past 5 years with Cael, and THAT is Cael's impact and worth as a coach. I think he is the highest paid coach in wrestling and worth every penny they pay him.

 

Yes people talk about the situation at PSU like Cael took over for Dan Gable or something.

 

Yet in reality it was about a 60 year NCAA title drought for the entire state of PA. if it was so easy with all that PA talent it would have been happening constantly.

 

Equally correct, HuskyHero. It took someone with Cael's resume, skill set, personality, and vision to turn Penn State wrestling into what it is today. We are fortunate we landed him. Cael Sanderson has made it FUN again.

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Cael to PSU was the perfect storm as I have stated before. It will be interesting to follow him the rest of the way. Will Cael and PSU overtake college wrestling like Gable did back in the day? Or is there too much parity for one team to trump the field? I think Cael will have PSU positioned as a perennial top 5 team with always having an outside chance at the title. Similar to the Iowa's, Ok St's and Minnesota's of the college wrestling world. Cael and PSU's rapid improvement has helped increase the popularity of college wrestling.

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But the strange thing is, is that hearing Cael is a superb recruiter is upsetting to other PSU fans, if it comes from Iowa, Minny or whoever fans. They are afraid that if you say Cael gets top recruits, then, somehow it is falsely inferred that one is impugning Cael's ability to develop wrestlers.

 

Rossel3,

 

Isn't it also true that many Iowa and Minnesota fans are afraid to admit that their schools are recruiting just as well as PSU overall? I've heard some say that although some of their recent recruiting classes have been ranked ahead of PSU (by most of the top ranking services) PSU in did, in fact, have the superior recruiting classes.

 

Some believe if they somehow, someway demonstrate that Cael really has the better recruits, that proves that Cael isn't seriously in the argument for the best developer of talent in the ncaa today. At least that's what I heard. :) I personally believe that Cael has a strong argument for being the #1 recruiter AND the #1 developer of talent in the ncaas.

 

Imho, overall, I believe the top schools (Okie State, Iowa, PSU, and Minnesota) are all starting with a very similar level of talent. I don't see a significant difference in the recruiting of the top teams.

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Cael's done a really good job building Penn State up in his time there. I know he had some added benefit of the existing recruits who have helped (Ruth, Molinaro, etc.) quite significantly so I think the real test begins now. Regardless, I agree that Penn State will be a top 5 team even in their "off years" (if you can call them that) with an outside shot at winning it on any given year. I predict things will be a bit tougher next year, but a championship is not out of site. On a side note, I would like to see Cael land Ke-Shawn Hayes as a replacement for Megaludis when he graduates. I am from MO and generally like to see our guys stay home, but I think he would benefit more from a room like Penn States than he would at Mizzou (especially with Sammy Henson now leaving).

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TBar1977, I think there is a difference between being a great coach and a great recruiter. If he would have stayed at Iowa State, do you think he would have won at least one NCAA title by now? He didn't think so that is why he left. He felt that he was loosing the recruiting battle to Iowa and pretty much couldn't recruit a national championship team at Iowa State.

 

When did Cael say this?

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Cael's done a really good job building Penn State up in his time there. I know he had some added benefit of the existing recruits who have helped (Ruth, Molinaro, etc.) quite significantly so I think the real test begins now. Regardless, I agree that Penn State will be a top 5 team even in their "off years" (if you can call them that) with an outside shot at winning it on any given year. I predict things will be a bit tougher next year, but a championship is not out of site. On a side note, I would like to see Cael land Ke-Shawn Hayes as a replacement for Megaludis when he graduates. I am from MO and generally like to see our guys stay home, but I think he would benefit more from a room like Penn States than he would at Mizzou (especially with Sammy Henson now leaving).

 

Overall, I agree. It has been about 10 years since a team has won a NCAA title based only on their development of their recruits. Brands had won multiple titles because he left VT and took guys with him to Iowa. Cael left Iowa state and benefited from DT going with him and then Long showing up mid season along with Ruth and Wright already on the rooster. Those events probably kept Okie State and Minnesota winning titles along the way. There is no clear favorite next year but if he doesn't win another team championship in the next 4 years then we have to say he has been more lucky than great.

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Lowly Minnesota and Iowa have only 1 each. And that's in five years of recruiting.

So it is clear as to which teams are winning the recruiting war.

 

"Winning" in what sense?

 

What's also clear from these numbers is which teams are good at coaching and developing talent.

 

I agree. I believe Cael is arguably the best recruiter and developer of talent in the ncaa today. I currently have him at #1 in both categories.

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Overall, I agree. It has been about 10 years since a team has won a NCAA title based only on their development of their recruits. Brands had won multiple titles because he left VT and took guys with him to Iowa. Cael left Iowa state and benefited from DT going with him and then Long showing up mid season along with Ruth and Wright already on the rooster. Those events probably kept Okie State and Minnesota winning titles along the way. There is no clear favorite next year but if he doesn't win another team championship in the next 4 years then we have to say he has been more lucky than great.

 

Would you say Brands, Smith, and Jrob were more lucky than great when they were winning their titles?

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Lowly Minnesota and Iowa have only 1 each. And that's in five years of recruiting.

So it is clear as to which teams are winning the recruiting war.

 

"Winning" in what sense?

 

Priceless!! Superold is insane.

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Lowly Minnesota and Iowa have only 1 each. And that's in five years of recruiting.

So it is clear as to which teams are winning the recruiting war.

 

"Winning" in what sense?

 

Priceless!! Superold is insane.

 

 

What's so insane about that question?

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Overall, I agree. It has been about 10 years since a team has won a NCAA title based only on their development of their recruits. Brands had won multiple titles because he left VT and took guys with him to Iowa. Cael left Iowa state and benefited from DT going with him and then Long showing up mid season along with Ruth and Wright already on the rooster. Those events probably kept Okie State and Minnesota winning titles along the way. There is no clear favorite next year but if he doesn't win another team championship in the next 4 years then we have to say he has been more lucky than great.

 

Would you say Brands, Smith, and Jrob were more lucky than great when they were winning their titles?

 

I am a huge Brands fan but same maybe said for him if he doesn't win a title in the next couple of years. I believe Smith sits in a class by himself because his teams are beating expectations at nationals the last couple of years. JRob's teams always seem to implode. They should have been the perianal 2nd place team the last few years but have found ways to not do as good as expected. If I had to go with a list of coaches that developed their talent well over the last couple of years, it would probably look like this:

 

Smith

Cael

Brands

JRob

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) I personally believe that Cael has a strong argument for being the #1 recruiter AND the #1 developer of talent in the ncaas.

 

Let's see how Cael has developed these highly ranked wrestlers:

 

#3 Jimmy Gulibon 18-15 dnp. most observers expected more.

#2 Andrew Alton dnp, dnp, dnp.

#8 Dylan Alton 3rd, dnp, dnp

#1 McIntosh dnp, 7th.

 

Compare to last years Minny:

#81 Chris Dardanes 4th, 6th, dnp

#15 Ness 2nd, 4th, 2nd

#NR Danny Zilverberg 7th

#5 Logan Storley 6th, 4th, 3rd

#84 Steiny 8th, 5th, dnp, 5th

#78 Schiller 5th, 3rd

#49 Nelson 7th, 1st, 1st, 2nd

#78 Schiller 5th, 3rd

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) I personally believe that Cael has a strong argument for being the #1 recruiter AND the #1 developer of talent in the ncaas.

 

Let's see how Cael has developed these highly ranked wrestlers:

 

#3 Jimmy Gulibon 18-15 dnp. most observers expected more.

#2 Andrew Alton dnp, dnp, dnp.

#8 Dylan Alton 3rd, dnp, dnp

#1 McIntosh dnp, 7th.

 

Compare to last years Minny:

#81 Chris Dardanes 4th, 6th, dnp

#15 Ness 2nd, 4th, 2nd

#NR Danny Zilverberg 7th

#5 Logan Storley 6th, 4th, 3rd

#84 Steiny 8th, 5th, dnp, 5th

#78 Schiller 5th, 3rd

#49 Nelson 7th, 1st, 1st, 2nd

#78 Schiller 5th, 3rd

 

How many recruits did you leave off? What about Ruth, Taylor, Varner, Meglaudis, Retherford, etc.? Also, do you know where to find individual weight class rankings? I generally believe that overall rankings are highly subjective.

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) I personally believe that Cael has a strong argument for being the #1 recruiter AND the #1 developer of talent in the ncaas.

 

Let's see how Cael has developed these highly ranked wrestlers:

 

#3 Jimmy Gulibon 18-15 dnp. most observers expected more.

#2 Andrew Alton dnp, dnp, dnp.

#8 Dylan Alton 3rd, dnp, dnp

#1 McIntosh dnp, 7th.

 

Compare to last years Minny:

#81 Chris Dardanes 4th, 6th, dnp

#15 Ness 2nd, 4th, 2nd

#NR Danny Zilverberg 7th

#5 Logan Storley 6th, 4th, 3rd

#84 Steiny 8th, 5th, dnp, 5th

#78 Schiller 5th, 3rd

#49 Nelson 7th, 1st, 1st, 2nd

#78 Schiller 5th, 3rd

 

How many recruits did you leave off? What about Ruth, Taylor, Varner, Meglaudis, Retherford, etc.?

I agree with including the others, but why would you include Varner when looking at least year's lineups? I'm interested in your opinion on that.

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I agree with including the others, but why would you include Varner when looking at least year's lineups? I'm interested in your opinion on that.

 

Do you mean last year's lineup? I wasn't aware that he was only doing last year's lineup. If he is, then Varner shouldn't be included.

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I agree with including the others, but why would you include Varner when looking at least year's lineups? I'm interested in your opinion on that.

 

Do you mean last year's lineup? I wasn't aware that he was only doing last year's lineup. If he is, then Varner shouldn't be included.

Yes last years. I presume that is what Jammen was intending to do. Guess if that is also the case, A. Alton should be removed and English should be entered.

 

Gauging talent development is so subjective, mainly because people (myself included) use subjective rankings of recruits to gauge their initial talent level. Who is to say those ranking are correct? Maybe Chris Dardanes should have been ranked the 27th overall recruit in the country coming out of high school, and maybe McIntosh should have been the 50th. How do you really know? Overall I think the ranking sources give a good assessment based on high school accomplishments, but there will always be errors. All I know is that I am pleased with Minnesota's talent development.

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Gauging talent development is so subjective, mainly because people (myself included) use subjective rankings of recruits to gauge their initial talent level. Who is to say those ranking are correct? Maybe Chris Dardanes should have been ranked the 27th overall recruit in the country coming out of high school, and maybe McIntosh should have been the 50th. How do you really know? Overall I think the ranking sources give a good assessment based on high school accomplishments, but there will always be errors. All I know is that I am pleased with Minnesota's talent development.

 

I too find the overall class rankings to be very subjective. Gauging talent development is a bit more complex than many seem to realize or want to admit.

 

Ex. Many believe that taking an overall (undisputed) #1 to an ncaa title is always less impressive than taking a 50th ranked kid to the same placement. I don't believe that to be the case. I believe Cael's job with Taylor and Ruth is superior to the job that he did with English.

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If you guys are going to argue who developed the better line up last year, just look to the final results.

 

1. Penn State (Cael Sanderson)

2. Minnesota (Jrob)

3. Oklahoma State (Smith)

4 and below. Everyone else

If u think that tells the whole story of development then ur kidding urself IMO. Many variables involved and each person will have a different criteria to gauge development. If final placement is ur criteria for development then that's your prerogative. Let me guess u don't think a coach can be great without a national title too? ;)

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If you guys are going to argue who developed the better line up last year, just look to the final results.

 

1. Penn State (Cael Sanderson)

2. Minnesota (Jrob)

3. Oklahoma State (Smith)

4 and below. Everyone else

If u think that tells the whole story of development then ur kidding urself IMO. Many variables involved and each person will have a different criteria to gauge development. If final placement is ur criteria for development then that's your prerogative. Let me guess u don't think a coach can be great without a national title too? ;)

 

You'd be wrong, ocho. I think a coach can be great without ever winning a national title. The small schools in PA are not going to win national titles, but many of them have great coaches.

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If you guys are going to argue who developed the better line up last year, just look to the final results.

 

1. Penn State (Cael Sanderson)

2. Minnesota (Jrob)

3. Oklahoma State (Smith)

4 and below. Everyone else

If u think that tells the whole story of development then ur kidding urself IMO. Many variables involved and each person will have a different criteria to gauge development. If final placement is ur criteria for development then that's your prerogative. Let me guess u don't think a coach can be great without a national title too? ;)

 

Great. You'll have your own criteria and I will have mine.

 

Penn State, Iowa, Minny and Oklahoma State all had national championship level talent last year but only one of them won the title, and that was Cael Sanderson's Penn State squad. John Smith is a phenomenal developer of talent, but his squad did not win. Cael's squad won. Using anything other than the scoreboard is so subjective that you could bring in 20 guys and make a case for them. For me, this is the best way simply because it takes out subjectivity. Keep in mind that I only apply this to the last 4 years. If Ohio State wins it this coming year, let Tom Ryan wear the crown for a year.

 

I doubt Penn State will win it this year. That won't mean Cael is any less talented as a developer of wrestlers, just that you can't always be #1. That's life. That is why I say some coaches who never win it still can be considered great coaches.

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