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GuillermoBilletas

how to fix USA Wrestling HS level

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Like I said, the states are on totally different levels. You have organizations like Illinois and Wisconsin that have a terrific system in place. Not all states have that and you are at the mercy of your state system.

 

Look at the makeup of the teams and you'll get a pretty good indicator of which states are doing the right things, and which ones are doing their "own thing".

 

Fargo/Jr Duals, etc are great events but until the event structure is reformed, you're always going to be missing kids from state organzations that can't get their act together. And for those that think you HAVE to go to these events, you don't unless you don't consider Penn State knowledgble in recruiting. Nevills never wrestled a single event, Cadet or Junior. If you're good, you're good. The events need the wrestlers. The wrestlers don't need the events.

 

Interesting point. What do you think is the most important (I agree with you, by the way)? What have college coaches told you about competing in certain events and how they play a part in recruitment?

 

Cael talks about it in his recent article on PennLIve. But every coach I know is pretty much the same. Do they love to wrestle? Do they have high goals? What kind of citizen are they? Grades? How do they compete? Do they try to score and dominate? Do they have a style of wrestling that will transition well to college? Some things that are successful at the high school level will struggle to ever find success at the next level. Coaches know this and recruit accordingly.

 

You don't need to go to Fargo. But you do need to compete and Fargo is a great opportunity to do so. But events are not what coaches are looking for. They are looking for individuals with the right skill/mind set. Most coaches do ask if kids are going to Fargo. But if they aren't, it doesn't rule them out. It just means they have to find another avenue to evaluate them.

 

We have kids move on to programs every year and none of them have gone to any Cadet/Junior events. Not that they wouldn't like to, but like I said, VALUE is more important than price or experience.

 

If you want to wrestle at the next level, here's a short list:

1. Love to wrestle and train

2. Reach out to schools early and let them know your intentions

3. Have goals and articulate those goals

4. Have the grades/scores to go along with

5. Let them see you train/compete

6. Be realistic about what to expect scholarship/aid wise

 

It's not that difficult really. If those 6 bases are covered, almost everyone can find somewhere to wrestle in college, if you are willing to go where it takes you.

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Having to go through a background check is a necessary evil in today's society. With as many events that USAW and states host it just takes one incident to cause a huge increase in liability. Don't blame USAW for forcing you to get a background check, blame a sue happy society.

 

If you want to complain about the bronze or copper certifications I will join you.

 

I'll agree it's an evil but I won't agree it's necessary. As I said all those other groups manage to get by without them. It's just USA covering their butts legally just in case some club coach does something untoward but that has nothing to do with me wanting to coach my own kid.

 

That is the difference, USAW is an organization from the clubs to the tournaments. The other groups are only tournaments and can be less stringent on who coaches at the events. In this case you are comparing apples to oranges in terms of organizations.

 

If the guy that is coaching your son at the club needs a background check, I would think the guy coaching your kid at a regional or national event should also. Maybe that is just my weird way of thinking.

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But Bob I'm not talking about the local clubs, I'm talking about me taking my kid to a national or regional tournament so there really is no difference. The need for protection (legal and financial) are different for these two items but USA is putting the absolute most restrictive and costly one into place for all involved.

 

Also I may not be taking my kid to a USA club so the coach might not need the background check and they should not have to get one if they are coaching in a private contract between him and me.

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If the organization requires the coaches at the club level to pass a background check, shouldn't they also require a background check for people coaching at the regional and national level?

 

It would seem odd to let anyone coach at a national event, but yet at the lowest level make someone get a background check. Even if you go to an event like Flo or NHSCA you are paying to be on the floor and neither is cheap.

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If the organization requires the coaches at the club level to pass a background check, shouldn't they also require a background check for people coaching at the regional and national level?

 

That's what they do but there is no real reason for that assuming that the dad (or his representative) is the person in the corner.

 

 

It would seem odd to let anyone coach at a national event, but yet at the lowest level make someone get a background check. Even if you go to an event like Flo or NHSCA you are paying to be on the floor and neither is cheap.

 

None of those are cheap but if I'm only doing say 1 USA tournament per year I end up saving money and time. I'm not really worried about the money but it is the principle here that they are forcing me to either have some stranger coach my kid or I have to get a particular level of certification which takes a bunch of my time. Trust me I already know how to stop a bloody nose, I don't need to spent 8 hours learning that.

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If the organization requires the coaches at the club level to pass a background check, shouldn't they also require a background check for people coaching at the regional and national level?

 

That's what they do but there is no real reason for that assuming that the dad (or his representative) is the person in the corner.

 

 

It would seem odd to let anyone coach at a national event, but yet at the lowest level make someone get a background check. Even if you go to an event like Flo or NHSCA you are paying to be on the floor and neither is cheap.

 

None of those are cheap but if I'm only doing say 1 USA tournament per year I end up saving money and time. I'm not really worried about the money but it is the principle here that they are forcing me to either have some stranger coach my kid or I have to get a particular level of certification which takes a bunch of my time. Trust me I already know how to stop a bloody nose, I don't need to spent 8 hours learning that.

You are failing to comprehend that USAW needs a whole different level of insurance and protection due to what kind of organization they are. Just as schools are now requiring background checks on all coaches even volunteers. The times have changed, even when I first started coaching 15 years ago they didn't require any kind of background check.

 

I find it sad that this is your biggest complaint about USAW. They are simply protecting the kids and protecting the organization from potential harm if an incident would occur. Obviously you don't care if a registered sex offender is coaching your kid, but I think there are quite a few people that do.

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No Bob they don't "NEED" a whole different level of insurance they just choose to force that upon the wrestling community.

 

Schools require insurance for clubs to be sure but I personally know of more than one private club which run on private insurance which as it turns out is far cheaper than the insurance offered by USA, NUWAY, or AAU.

 

They are not protecting kids, they are covering their a**. Everybody immediately jumps all over that sex offender card but as I said "I'M COATCHING MY KID" which is the same for most dads, either that or they are closely watching what is happening.

 

I promise you I have serious issues with all of these associations which is why I tend to go independent.

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With the number of wrestlers at Fargo I could not imagine what a cluster it would be if every kid had a parent mat side. Every single time I've seen a "coach" get belligerent it turned out to be a dad. Fargo is run amazingly well has great competition and is the only national tournament for the international styles. Nothing irritates me more than an overbearing dad coach keeping a match from progressing while he tries to set the refs straight on every single call.

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Yet somehow Virginia Beech, Reno, Super 32, RMM, etc. Are all able to manage the dads who are coaching and their tournaments work just fine.

 

If a ref can't handle an out of line coach (dad) then they shouldn't put on the shirt. Trust me I've had to deal with more than my share if bad and unruly coaches, including the so called "professionals."

 

So far all of the arguments are easily deflected using existing examples that use the anti-USA model. The only argument you can really make that I can't get around is the massive funneling of dollars from the youth level to fund the national organization.

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i think many of you are going completely overboard.

 

usaw events are great.

 

are there things that i hate? hell yeah. things that make my skin crawl. and things that i've wanted to address for a long time.

 

but the state associations need tweaks and oversight, not to be scrapped altogether. that's 1) plain crazy, 2) counterproductive and 3) completely unrealistic.

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Like I said, the states are on totally different levels. You have organizations like Illinois and Wisconsin that have a terrific system in place. Not all states have that and you are at the mercy of your state system.

 

Look at the makeup of the teams and you'll get a pretty good indicator of which states are doing the right things, and which ones are doing their "own thing".

 

Fargo/Jr Duals, etc are great events but until the event structure is reformed, you're always going to be missing kids from state organzations that can't get their act together. And for those that think you HAVE to go to these events, you don't unless you don't consider Penn State knowledgble in recruiting. Nevills never wrestled a single event, Cadet or Junior. If you're good, you're good. The events need the wrestlers. The wrestlers don't need the events.

 

Interesting point. What do you think is the most important (I agree with you, by the way)? What have college coaches told you about competing in certain events and how they play a part in recruitment?

 

Cael talks about it in his recent article on PennLIve. But every coach I know is pretty much the same. Do they love to wrestle? Do they have high goals? What kind of citizen are they? Grades? How do they compete? Do they try to score and dominate? Do they have a style of wrestling that will transition well to college? Some things that are successful at the high school level will struggle to ever find success at the next level. Coaches know this and recruit accordingly.

 

You don't need to go to Fargo. But you do need to compete and Fargo is a great opportunity to do so. But events are not what coaches are looking for. They are looking for individuals with the right skill/mind set. Most coaches do ask if kids are going to Fargo. But if they aren't, it doesn't rule them out. It just means they have to find another avenue to evaluate them.

 

We have kids move on to programs every year and none of them have gone to any Cadet/Junior events. Not that they wouldn't like to, but like I said, VALUE is more important than price or experience.

 

If you want to wrestle at the next level, here's a short list:

1. Love to wrestle and train

2. Reach out to schools early and let them know your intentions

3. Have goals and articulate those goals

4. Have the grades/scores to go along with

5. Let them see you train/compete

6. Be realistic about what to expect scholarship/aid wise

 

It's not that difficult really. If those 6 bases are covered, almost everyone can find somewhere to wrestle in college, if you are willing to go where it takes you.

Where do your guys get the competition that the coaches need to evaluate them objectively?

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i think many of you are going completely overboard.

 

usaw events are great.

 

are there things that i hate? hell yeah. things that make my skin crawl. and things that i've wanted to address for a long time.

 

but the state associations need tweaks and oversight, not to be scrapped altogether. that's 1) plain crazy, 2) counterproductive and 3) completely unrealistic.

 

Could you please show me where I called for scrapping the system because you won't find it. What I did say was I get the issues and I live with them and make financial choices accordingly. These include which events I attend, USA or others.

 

I also made sure to point out all of the choices that USA and others make in running their businesses (and they are businesses) are exactly that, choices, and not requirements. There are alternatives some of which are better and or cheaper and some are not.

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Where do your guys get the competition that the coaches need to evaluate them objectively?

 

We wrestle a tough season schedule and travel out of state every year. Many of our kids have wrestled Flonationals or NHSCA Nationals. Or they attend camp at a school they are interested in going to. That's a much better place for a coach to get to know a kid than watching a few matches from the stands.

 

It's less than we'd like, but we also live in CA. It's hard to get back to the midwest/east coast very often without mortgaging your house.

 

Every kid we've had capable and wanting to wrestle at the next level has found a spot to do so, whether that be D1, D2, D3, NAIA, or Ntl JC.

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i think many of you are going completely overboard.

 

usaw events are great.

 

are there things that i hate? hell yeah. things that make my skin crawl. and things that i've wanted to address for a long time.

 

but the state associations need tweaks and oversight, not to be scrapped altogether. that's 1) plain crazy, 2) counterproductive and 3) completely unrealistic.

 

Could you please show me where I called for scrapping the system because you won't find it. What I did say was I get the issues and I live with them and make financial choices accordingly. These include which events I attend, USA or others.

 

I also made sure to point out all of the choices that USA and others make in running their businesses (and they are businesses) are exactly that, choices, and not requirements. There are alternatives some of which are better and or cheaper and some are not.

 

who said i was talking about you?

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Where do your guys get the competition that the coaches need to evaluate them objectively?

 

We wrestle a tough season schedule and travel out of state every year. Many of our kids have wrestled Flonationals or NHSCA Nationals. Or they attend camp at a school they are interested in going to. That's a much better place for a coach to get to know a kid than watching a few matches from the stands.

 

It's less than we'd like, but we also live in CA. It's hard to get back to the midwest/east coast very often without mortgaging your house.

 

Every kid we've had capable and wanting to wrestle at the next level has found a spot to do so, whether that be D1, D2, D3, NAIA, or Ntl JC.

Has Clovis ever been to the Clash or have intentions to go?

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Anyone who argues against background checks isn't paying attention. Seriously. This is the national governing organization. I don't care how the Tulsa Wrestling Dad tourney of Vicarious Living does it. This is a professional organization. Background checks are standard in the 21st century.

 

State teams/ organizations are still stupid, and you could run USA Wrestling without them. Check out every other "USA" group.

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I've seen both ends of the spectrum; Arizona and Oklahoma. After my first experience sending a kid from my club to Fargo, i never sent another kid to the state training camp except for one night to get his uniforms and team photos. I had a 4-time AA NC who was a friend come workout with him. One year i helped with the Oklahoma Junior National Duals camp at Perry. John Smith had Eric Guerrero come over every afternoon and do instruction. The Perry coach had been going over to John Smith for 6 weeks working on the leg lace.

 

I've had 3 kids go to Fargo at Juniors. The first one was a 3rd year wrestler who went 2-2 and pinned a returning AA. The next was a 5-time AA if freestyle/greco. The last took 5th in freestyle.

 

Some state coaches let their egos get in the way and want to show every move they know, instead of perfecting a few in practice.

Arizona sends a lot of coaches at no expense. There has been a lack of accountability on the expenditure of funds in that state.

 

I took Kevin Young on my own dime to the 1973 junior nationals in Iowa City, which he won, becoming the first champ for Oklahoma. I hadn't coached him in high school. Bill Lam and Mickey Martin were his high school coaches. Mickey couldn't go as he had to work on his teaching certificate. I'd taken Kevin and his teammate Tim Jefferies to Fort Collins to a mini-nationals that spring. No qualifying or state organization, we just drive up entered and went home with hardware.

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