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JohnnyThompsonnum1

States without VARSITY College Wrestling

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I cannot tell you how thrilled I am that Alabama will field a varsity wrestling team this upcoming season. I think this is a huge step for the sport of wrestling and it feels good to erase a state from the list states that do not have varsity college wrestling opportunities. That's the good news.

 

The bad news is, we still have 7 states that currently have no VARSITY collegiate wrestling opportunities. These states include, Alaska, Mississippi, Hawaii, Delaware, Florida, Louisiana and Nevada.

 

Alaska and Hawaii are going to be damn near impossible, simply because of Geography. How colleges in Hawaii manage to have any varsity sports at all is incredible. Travel, pretty much writes off these two states.

 

I hate to be pessimistic but I just don't see Mississippi coming on board anytime soon. It is still the only state that has yet to sanction high school wrestling. I know Tyron Woodley has done some work generating interest in the state, as have others. Hopefully things change.

 

That leaves us with four States, Florida, Louisiana, Delaware and Nevada.

 

Florida - I think Florida is best approached from the NJCAA level. If we could get wrestling started at a good number of the many junior colleges in Florida, I think that could grow into the NAIA and DII schools of Florida adding wrestling as well. Think about it. Let's say that ASA Miami, Eastern Florida State College, Gulf Coast State, Indian River State, Lake Sumter, Palm Beach State, Pensacola state, Polk State, Seminole State, St Johns River State, St. Petersburg and Tallahassee Community College all add wrestling that is 13 NJCAA schools that can all compete against one another within doable travel distance. This could lead to the Division II schools of Barry, Eckerd, Flagler, Lynn, Rollins, Tampa and West Florida as well as the NAIA schools of Florida Memorial and Southeastern University all adding wrestling as well. A major concern of adding wrestling in Florida is the travel distance. With 7 DII schools all having wrestling programs, there is a large chunk of the schedule right there. The NAIA programs could wrestle against the nearby NAIA schools in Georgia. No reason Florida shouldn't have wrestling opportunities.

 

Louisiana - Much like Arkansas, Kentucky and Georgia have been, Louisiana needs to be hit hard from the NAIA level. Dillard, LSU-Shreveport, Loyola, Southeastern University of New Orleans and Xavier are all NAIA schools within relatively close distance to one another. Plus add in LSU-Alexandria as well. This could lead to NJCAA schools of Baton Rouge, Delgado Community College and Southeastern University to add as well. Maybe even a slight chance at getting DIII's Centaury of Louisiana and Louisiana College to add too.

 

Delaware - Based on the state itself, it seems a bit more challenging, but it's not all that far from New Jersey, Virginia or Pennsylvania. If the Tech colleges in Owens, Stanton and Terry were to add programs, that would mean 3 NJCAA opportunities. DIII wrestling is rich in the surrounding states, so if Wesley were to add wrestling, I think they could do their schedule with relative ease. Wilmington would be a good addition to DII.

 

Nevada - Nevada seems like the toughest challenge, but still one that should be approached. what makes Nevada hard to tackle is that it has no DIII schools, no DII Schools and no NAIA schools. This posses a problem. On top of that it only has two NJCAA schools in Western Nevada College and College of Southern Nevada. Not sure if the locations of these schools would be fit to compete against schools in the California Community College system or not. Sure would like to see wrestling in Nevada though.

 

 

Thoughts?

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Florida has had a college presence. The Sunshine Open and the Citrus Invitation have been held in Florida fairly recently. These events have brought solid competition from Northeast and Midwest programs to the state. Additionally, they have some very organized and solid clubs. UCF (Central Florida), in Orlando is a solid team with a good schedule that travels to see a lot of varsity programs. http://ucfwrestling.net/index.html

 

The addition of NJCAA programs would be a great start. Any of the NAIA programs would also be good targets. They would easily be able to wrestle a schedule that rivals NCWA programs during the season and it wouldn't be hard to make a trip of two north to Georgia, South Carolina, or Tennessee to get some additional matches.

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why the hell are there so many wrestling tournaments in Nevada when they don't support the sport no wonder they don't add any programs the people can watch wrestling without ever having to support it between usa wrestling and the reno and las vegas open they have no need to start a college program

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In my opinion Pinnum there should be varsity opportunities for high school wrestlers in no less than 47 of the 50 states. I can begrudgingly accept that Mississippi most likely won't have a program anytime soon, and I can understand why Alaska and Hawaii most likely never will either. I can stretch it, and accept the circumstances in Nevada as well given that they have so little NJCAA representation and no DII, DIII or NAIA schools.

 

However, every other state ought to have some representation. As large as Texas is, I hope that Wayland Baptist is the start of something and that more NAIA schools in the largest state in the continental United States has more than just one program. I remember when Kentucky, Georgia and Arkansas all got their first programs, and it wasn't long after until Kentucky was up to 3, and Georgia up to 5 and Arkansas up to 6. I hope to see the same thing in Alabama, and Texas.

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why the hell are there so many wrestling tournaments in Nevada when they don't support the sport no wonder they don't add any programs the people can watch wrestling without ever having to support it between usa wrestling and the reno and las vegas open they have no need to start a college program

 

Well the biggest obstacle in Nevada is that if a program was to be started, it would almost have to be a Division I school. We all know how damn near impossible starting a DI program can be (even though we all love to day dream about Louisville, Clemson and Fresno State with actual hope). Nevada, as I mentioned before has no NAIA, DIII or DII schools. They only have two NJCAA schools too. That makes Nevada an awfully difficult state to approach.

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Who is going to pay to bring wrestling into these colleges? The federal government is bankrupt. Forget about state schools receiving money from that source. Private colleges are not much better. If the federal government stops funding student loans, there is speculations that many small colleges will go under.

 

Maybe a school like Texas that makes millions on the their athletic program would be interested but if it hasn't happened yet, I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

 

Students around the county are protesting tuition hikes. I don't think student activity fees are likely to finance wrestling.

 

Like I said, all we can do is wish! (And hope for the best.)

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Who is going to pay to bring wrestling into these colleges? The federal government is bankrupt. Forget about state schools receiving money from that source. Private colleges are not much better. If the federal government stops funding student loans, there is speculations that many small colleges will go under.

 

Maybe a school like Texas that makes millions on the their athletic program would be interested but if it hasn't happened yet, I don't think it will happen anytime soon.

 

Students around the county are protesting tuition hikes. I don't think student activity fees are likely to finance wrestling.

 

Like I said, all we can do is wish! (And hope for the best.)

I understand your frustration. I get it. Your pessimism is understandable. Yet I also know that I saw something I never thought I'd see. There is college wrestling in Alabama, Texas, Arkansas, Georgia and Kentucky . I never thought we would see that, and yet we did. I guess I am optimistic because I was given reason. to be. I see wrestling in in Florida,Delaware, and Louisiana in one form or another relatively soon. I am not hopeful for Alaska, Hawaii or Mississippi at all. Nevada is another tough one. My dream is 50/50. My realistic goal is 46/50.

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UCF has a great club program. The difference between them and D3 programs is very small. UCF also hosts a tournament that lower division teams from all over the southeast attend. Heck, even some GA and NC schools come down here to wrestle them despite the fact that there is nothing in the state. It's laughable that you ignore this in your extensive post on Florida schools. How long did it take you to google the names of our junior colleges so that you could act like you knew what you were talking about? I get the fact that not having scholarships sucks and that scholarship dollars is the goal, but I don't know that a team from Florida Memorial University would ever be able to beat UCF's lowly club.

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UCF has a great club program. The difference between them and D3 programs is very small. UCF also hosts a tournament that lower division teams from all over the southeast attend. Heck, even some GA and NC schools come down here to wrestle them despite the fact that there is nothing in the state. It's laughable that you ignore this in your extensive post on Florida schools. How long did it take you to google the names of our junior colleges so that you could act like you knew what you were talking about? I get the fact that not having scholarships sucks and that scholarship dollars is the goal, but I don't know that a team from Florida Memorial University would ever be able to beat UCF's lowly club.

 

I'm quite aware of the NCWA, Central Florida and other teams within it. I'm not sure how excited I or anyone else should be about club status only teams. Yes, they are better than nothing, but in the spectrum of things, they are still not varsity programs. Would I like to see Central Florida become a varsity program, absolutely. Do I KNOW what I'm talking about when I realize how astronomically impossible it is to get wrestling started at a division I school? Yes, I do. I guess I'm missing whatever point your trying to make, other than you want recognition of a club team. This post wasn't about club teams. This post was about varsity college wrestling. Something at this point Florida does not have. Also if you want a statement that is quite laughable, saying that the difference between the NCWA and NCAA Division III wrestling is very small, is extremely laughable. NCAA Division III wrestling is paid for by the institution, providing mats, singlets, shoes and travel expenses. Something participants have to fundraise/pay for out of pocket at the NCWA level, not to mention the other huge differences.

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JT some club sports are very well funded by schools. I know of club sports at schools that have full time coaching staffs and would put most D3 programs to shame. Some of the Rugby, Ice Hockey, and, yes, even wrestling club programs at large Division-I schools operate as if they were varsity at D2 or D3 schools.

 

In fact, I believe the NCWA (which doesn't stand for club but rather National Collegiate Wrestling Association) has two divisions. Division-I programs are well funded by the schools and Division-II are the programs you've described where the kids make it possible due only to their desire to compete.

 

(Sent via mobile)

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JT some club sports are very well funded by schools. I know of club sports at schools that have full time coaching staffs and would put most D3 programs to shame. Some of the Rugby, Ice Hockey, and, yes, even wrestling club programs at large Division-I schools operate as if they were varsity at D2 or D3 schools.

 

In fact, I believe the NCWA (which doesn't stand for club but rather National Collegiate Wrestling Association) has two divisions. Division-I programs are well funded by the schools and Division-II are the programs you've described where the kids make it possible due only to their desire to compete.

 

(Sent via mobile)

 

If they are paid for by the school, and have full time coaching staffs AND they would put most DIII schools to shame, why don't they just become varsity status? Or at least TRY and become varsity status? I guess I don't get that. Explain that to me.

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JT some club sports are very well funded by schools. I know of club sports at schools that have full time coaching staffs and would put most D3 programs to shame. Some of the Rugby, Ice Hockey, and, yes, even wrestling club programs at large Division-I schools operate as if they were varsity at D2 or D3 schools.

 

In fact, I believe the NCWA (which doesn't stand for club but rather National Collegiate Wrestling Association) has two divisions. Division-I programs are well funded by the schools and Division-II are the programs you've described where the kids make it possible due only to their desire to compete.

 

(Sent via mobile)

 

If they are paid for by the school, and have full time coaching staffs AND they would put most DIII schools to shame, why don't they just become varsity status? Or at least TRY and become varsity status? I guess I don't get that. Explain that to me.

 

For one, Title IX is not considered in club sports since they are a function of student choice. The second biggest one is the level of funding needed. There is a big difference between spending less than $100k like a Divison-III program and spending $1Million like a D1 program. Some schools even create a gray area and put them up on their athletics website http://www.njithighlanders.com/

 

There are a lot of different reasons schools make the decision to operate a sport at the club level rather than varsity but some of the NWCA programs are as close to being varsity without being varsity as possible. (Mobile)

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I'm quite aware of the NCWA, Central Florida and other teams within it. I'm not sure how excited I or anyone else should be about club status only teams. Yes, they are better than nothing, but in the spectrum of things, they are still not varsity programs. Would I like to see Central Florida become a varsity program, absolutely. Do I KNOW what I'm talking about when I realize how astronomically impossible it is to get wrestling started at a division I school? Yes, I do. I guess I'm missing whatever point your trying to make, other than you want recognition of a club team. This post wasn't about club teams. This post was about varsity college wrestling. Something at this point Florida does not have. Also if you want a statement that is quite laughable, saying that the difference between the NCWA and NCAA Division III wrestling is very small, is extremely laughable. NCAA Division III wrestling is paid for by the institution, providing mats, singlets, shoes and travel expenses. Something participants have to fundraise/pay for out of pocket at the NCWA level, not to mention the other huge differences.

 

You continue to comment on things that you have no idea about and present your information as factual. This is why you are constantly getting picked on. You have a good understanding of wrestling in Iowa, but no clue about what is going on in other parts of the country as you do not travel nor have you ever competed at the national level. That's fine, but stop making statements about things you have no idea about.

 

Fact: UCF wrestlers have mats, singlets, and travel expenses paid for by the institution. They travel all over the country and often fly to the West Coast for meets. UCF wrestlers do not spend a penny to compete. The same can be said for other NCWA schools like Apprentice and MMI. Again, I can only speak for the programs where I know this is a fact. At UCF some of the money from the program's budget comes from the University's sports club budget and the rest comes from fundraising.

 

Fact: Wrestlers at all level have to participate in fundraisers to help grow their program. There are numerous D3 programs where wrestlers are tasked with calling alumni and soliciting donations. I believe even Cornell has their wrestlers participate in these types of fundraisers. Is Cornell less of a program? I guess there facilities aren't worth as much since they had to fundraise and couldn't just sit back and let the university do all of the work.

 

 

If they are paid for by the school, and have full time coaching staffs AND they would put most DIII schools to shame, why don't they just become varsity status? Or at least TRY and become varsity status? I guess I don't get that. Explain that to me.

 

Again, you are clueless. Whenever you post, I read it to myself in the voice of Kenneth from 30 Rock. Title IX has been waging war on college wrestling for the last 40+ years and is the reason many schools do not have varsity programs. It is not as simple as flipping a switch or waving the magic "varsity wand." Additionally, schools are not given the choice to compete in any division of their choosing. If UCF or other large universities with NCWA programs decided they wanted to become a varsity team, they wouldn't be able to simply slide into D3 and maintain a budget similar to what they already have. They would have to go D1 and up their budget by hundreds of thousands of dollars to stay competitive with other D1 schools.

 

You've got a lot of ideas and like to share them on this forum. You're naive and ignorant and it is condescending to those who are actually out fighting for the things you are merely talking about on a message board. Step away from the keyboard and stop posting until you get involved with the sport and gain some credibility.

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I'm quite aware of the NCWA, Central Florida and other teams within it. I'm not sure how excited I or anyone else should be about club status only teams. Yes, they are better than nothing, but in the spectrum of things, they are still not varsity programs. Would I like to see Central Florida become a varsity program, absolutely. Do I KNOW what I'm talking about when I realize how astronomically impossible it is to get wrestling started at a division I school? Yes, I do. I guess I'm missing whatever point your trying to make, other than you want recognition of a club team. This post wasn't about club teams. This post was about varsity college wrestling. Something at this point Florida does not have. Also if you want a statement that is quite laughable, saying that the difference between the NCWA and NCAA Division III wrestling is very small, is extremely laughable. NCAA Division III wrestling is paid for by the institution, providing mats, singlets, shoes and travel expenses. Something participants have to fundraise/pay for out of pocket at the NCWA level, not to mention the other huge differences.

 

You continue to comment on things that you have no idea about and present your information as factual. This is why you are constantly getting picked on. You have a good understanding of wrestling in Iowa, but no clue about what is going on in other parts of the country as you do not travel nor have you ever competed at the national level. That's fine, but stop making statements about things you have no idea about.

 

Fact: UCF wrestlers have mats, singlets, and travel expenses paid for by the institution. They travel all over the country and often fly to the West Coast for meets. UCF wrestlers do not spend a penny to compete. The same can be said for other NCWA schools like Apprentice and MMI. Again, I can only speak for the programs where I know this is a fact. At UCF some of the money from the program's budget comes from the University's sports club budget and the rest comes from fundraising.

 

Fact: Wrestlers at all level have to participate in fundraisers to help grow their program. There are numerous D3 programs where wrestlers are tasked with calling alumni and soliciting donations. I believe even Cornell has their wrestlers participate in these types of fundraisers. Is Cornell less of a program? I guess there facilities aren't worth as much since they had to fundraise and couldn't just sit back and let the university do all of the work.

 

 

If they are paid for by the school, and have full time coaching staffs AND they would put most DIII schools to shame, why don't they just become varsity status? Or at least TRY and become varsity status? I guess I don't get that. Explain that to me.

 

Again, you are clueless. Whenever you post, I read it to myself in the voice of Kenneth from 30 Rock. Title IX has been waging war on college wrestling for the last 40+ years and is the reason many schools do not have varsity programs. It is not as simple as flipping a switch or waving the magic "varsity wand." Additionally, schools are not given the choice to compete in any division of their choosing. If UCF or other large universities with NCWA programs decided they wanted to become a varsity team, they wouldn't be able to simply slide into D3 and maintain a budget similar to what they already have. They would have to go D1 and up their budget by hundreds of thousands of dollars to stay competitive with other D1 schools.

 

You've got a lot of ideas and like to share them on this forum. You're naive and ignorant and it is condescending to those who are actually out fighting for the things you are merely talking about on a message board. Step away from the keyboard and stop posting until you get involved with the sport and gain some credibility.

 

WTF does competing have to do with wanting to see wrestling grow in the state of Florida? Is there some unwritten rule that you have to be an arrogant, know it all prick in order to want to see wrestling grow?

 

Fact: Most people on this message board know little to nothing about Central Florida wrestling because it is not a varsity program. Most fans on this message board and most fans of college wrestling period, know little to nothing about Central Florida wrestling, because it is not a varsity program. You want to take shots deliberately at me, telling me I know nothing and that I am clueless. How many messageboard posters on themat.com, which is full of some of the most knowledgeable wrestling fans in the country, do you think can tell you a list of facts from the coaches to the rosters to the records to the finishes of Central Florida as individuals and Central Florida as a team? My wager would be you and maybe less than a handful of others. Get over yourself.

 

I never said that other programs don't have to fundraise, but the wrestling program has support from the school at Cornell College. I was unaware that any NCWA programs had support from their schools. I learned something new. Sorry that I don't know absolutely everything or that I need to act like I know absolutely everything and that I'm not the type that needs to act like a pompous prick in order to make my points. I learned something new. It's not like there is a ton of information on the NCWA to begin with and the little it is talked about here on themat.com it has been painted as strictly a club based institution, that is paid for directly by the participants. I can only go with what information is available. What I learned about what goes on at Central Florida, I learned from you, someone directly involved in the program. I doubt that out of the majority of wrestling fans, many more knew much more than me on the facts that you recently presented.

 

Point made on the NCWA teams that would have to be Division I. Why in the Hell are you so against the idea of NJCAA schools in Florida adding programs? Because UCF already had a NCWA club team? I guess I don't get how I don't know a "F N" thing because I feel that it would be healthy for the sport of wrestling if wrestling were to be added to a number of NJCAA schools in Florida. I don't see how this makes me ignorant or stupid.

 

I'm a good decent person who treats others with respect and dignity. I don't act like a arrogant, pompous prick to other people just because I may disagree with what they have to say. It's condescending to me, a decent human being, when a total non-decent human being, who has no respect for anyone, comes on to a message board and throws insults my way because I'm not as pessimistic and negative as he is about the current state of wrestling.

 

It seems to me when it comes to ignoring facts, that you and gowrestle sure do like to point out all of the negatives and want me to fall into the pessimistic state of doom that you are in. College Wrestling is in Arkansas, Alabama, Kentucky and Texas now. Throw a hissy fit and act like a bafoon, because I think it might come to Florida in the near future too.

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You know what I think your real problem is superbowlhomeboy? I think it's the fact that I said there is no college wrestling in Florida, and you being a UCF guy took offense to that. Well, let me tell you something. I used to attend Iowa Hawkeye hockey games. I'd go out to Coral Ridge mall in Coralville, Iowa sit down and cheer for the Hawkeyes as they played against other club teams like SIU-Edwardsville. I got to know one of the players real well, and he was just as dedicated and devoted on the club team as he would have been had Iowa's hockey program been varsity status. The games are just as real, just as competitive and the passion that the players have can be even more so at times than the guys getting scholarship dollars to compete.

 

You know what though? If I am asked if there is Division I hockey in the state of Iowa, I say NO THERE IS NOT. You want to know why I say that? Because there is no Division I hockey in the state of Iowa. If hockey lovers out there among us bring up the fact that there is no Division I hockey in the state of Iowa, and they'd like to see varsity hockey brought to Iowa, you wouldn't see me get on my high horse and throw a conniption fit in honor of the club team at Iowa.

 

Fact of the matter is there is little (Not sure if Dordt is a varsity or club team) to no college hockey in Iowa at the VARSITY level. Iowa State and Iowa can have all the club teams they want. They can be just a dedicated, just as devoted, just as good, just as passionate but at the end of the day they aren't varsity. They are not varsity, and therefore well, to say it again, they aren' t varsity.

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JT#1,

 

I never said you had to compete, but I do urge you to get involved with the sport. The reason you think everyone else is so jaded and pessimistic is because many of us have reason to be. I don't simply post ideas on the internet. I put my money where my mouth is. I have fought with colleges and universities to both bring back programs that have been dropped or add new programs. I donate my time and money to help grow the sport. Go find a youth, high school, or college program to get involved with, whether it is coaching, promoting, or helping fundraise the program. If you don't have the time to do so, take a few minutes and e-mail some of these administrators at the schools that you have mentioned. It takes two minutes to track down an entire departments e-mail addresses. Sometimes they appreciate it, sometimes they don't. Only then will you understand this perspective and get why everything is not as simple as some like to think.

 

There's nothing wrong with people not knowing about NCWA programs, but don't present information as if you do. You mentioned that NCWA programs were different from NCAA programs in that they have to support themselves and wrestlers must pay for everything on their own. This was an inference you made and nothing close to the truth, yet you present it as if you have first hand knowledge in an effort to create some sort of criteria and division between the NCWA and NCAA programs. People keep making up new criteria for what constitutes "college wrestling" and every time an NCWA program meets this criteria, it is ignored or a new criteria is arbitrarily assigned. Ultimately, it comes down to the level of competition. Though it is true that NCWA is weaker than all of the NCAA divisions, saying it is not "college wrestling" is like saying Arkansas does not have "high school wrestling" because they are not on par with states like Illinois and Pennsylvania.

 

Sorry for the personal attacks. I'm a nice guy, I swear.

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JT#1,

 

I never said you had to compete, but I do urge you to get involved with the sport. The reason you think everyone else is so jaded and pessimistic is because many of us have reason to be. I don't simply post ideas on the internet. I put my money where my mouth is. I have fought with colleges and universities to both bring back programs that have been dropped or add new programs. I donate my time and money to help grow the sport. Go find a youth, high school, or college program to get involved with, whether it is coaching, promoting, or helping fundraise the program. If you don't have the time to do so, take a few minutes and e-mail some of these administrators at the schools that you have mentioned. It takes two minutes to track down an entire departments e-mail addresses. Sometimes they appreciate it, sometimes they don't. Only then will you understand this perspective and get why everything is not as simple as some like to think.

 

There's nothing wrong with people not knowing about NCWA programs, but don't present information as if you do. You mentioned that NCWA programs were different from NCAA programs in that they have to support themselves and wrestlers must pay for everything on their own. This was an inference you made and nothing close to the truth, yet you present it as if you have first hand knowledge in an effort to create some sort of criteria and division between the NCWA and NCAA programs. People keep making up new criteria for what constitutes "college wrestling" and every time an NCWA program meets this criteria, it is ignored or a new criteria is arbitrarily assigned. Ultimately, it comes down to the level of competition. Though it is true that NCWA is weaker than all of the NCAA divisions, saying it is not "college wrestling" is like saying Arkansas does not have "high school wrestling" because they are not on par with states like Illinois and Pennsylvania.

 

Sorry for the personal attacks. I'm a nice guy, I swear.

 

I don't know anything about accusing anyone of being jaded. I just know that some positive things have happened and many seem to ignore those and focus primarily on the negative. I never treated it like it would be a "simple"thing to do either. I am treating it like it is a place to start. I've emailed many administrators and I've even talked with some over the phone. I'd spoken with Athletic directors at schools like the University of Texas.

 

It is first hand knowledge of what I know about some NCWA programs, because some NCWA programs work just like I thought they did. Some do not, and I learned that.

 

My point remains solid, NCWA is not varsity wrestling. It may be just as good or even better than some varsity wrestling, but it is not varsity wrestling. Florida, therefore does not have varsity college wrestling anymore than Iowa has varsity college hockey.

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My point remains solid, NCWA is not varsity wrestling. It may be just as good or even better than some varsity wrestling, but it is not varsity wrestling. Florida, therefore does not have varsity college wrestling anymore than Iowa has varsity college hockey.

 

Again, you're working in circles. This is the part of the argument where you have come up with some new criteria for what constitutes college wrestling; similar to before, but now you have thrown in the word "varsity." There are NCWA schools that operate under their schools athletic department and are in fact varsity programs by every definition of the word.

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My point remains solid, NCWA is not varsity wrestling. It may be just as good or even better than some varsity wrestling, but it is not varsity wrestling. Florida, therefore does not have varsity college wrestling anymore than Iowa has varsity college hockey.

 

Again, you're working in circles. This is the part of the argument where you have come up with some new criteria for what constitutes college wrestling; similar to before, but now you have thrown in the word "varsity." There are NCWA schools that operate under their schools athletic department and are in fact varsity programs by every definition of the word.

 

You want to put it to a vote? YOu want to ask the messageboard members if there is or if there is not college wrestling in Hawaii, Florida, Delaware, Alaska, Mississippi, Louisiana or Nevada?

 

If you think I'm the only one that would answer, "no" when asked if there is college wrestling in Florida or not, you are sadly mistaken. Florida is still listed as a state that has no college wrestling, because it does not have any varsity teams. You can be angry with that all you want and you can furthermore be angry that you are incorrect by saying that any club team is "varsity...by every definition of the word". Either they are or they aren't. There is no gray area.

 

Now with that said, I'm not knocking club teams. As I mentioned to you before, I used to support a club hockey team when I lived in Iowa city. Doesn't make it varsity though and it does not mean that Iowa has a college hockey team. It's a club team. As good and as awesome as it and the players are within it, it is a club team.

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