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184 this coming season

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184 will be one of the most entertaining weights this year with a number of contenders.  Here is my thoughts:

 

Top Dog: Gabe Dean (Cornell)

 

*Dean will be projected at #1 coming into the season and rightfully so, highest returning placer and he is mostly known for the big win over Ruth.  I am interested to see if Dean continues to improve this offseason/season and will he be able to manage being the hunted instead of the hunter.  

 

Top Contender: Dechow (ODU), Brown (Lehigh) and Thomusseit (Pitt)

 

*Dechow is coming off an impressive 4th place finish at the NCAA's and will likely rank #2 coming into this season. Dechow made huge leaps throughout the season and if he continues to build he will be a scary force to mess with.  How does ODU schedule look next year? This is my only concern

 

*Brown is clearly a top contender after knocking off a number of top ranked foes. Wins over Bernstein, Thomas, Avery and Abounder was big. Brown is a definite threat for the title but a lot of his fate will be determined by the NCAA Bracket. I believe he is one of the few wrestlers (listed here) that will be highly effected by the match ups.

 

*Thomusseit is extremely tough defensively and has a nice blast double off of the whistle. I see Thomusseit AA this year for sure, depending on where he falls is a completely different story.  This year had to be rough for him as he had AA status on the ropes and if not for a last second takedown by Steinhuas he would be right now. As a senior he has to be smelling blood.

 

In the mix: Bernstein, Thomas, Courts

 

*Bernstein is a returning AA and is one of the funkiest guys in the weight class.  He could be a another bracket buster (Depending on seed) this year.  The biggest issue he will face is consistency, some days he is a world beater others... not so much.  This makes him a scary wrestler to bet for or against as he has the ability to upset anyone, at the same time get beat up by anyone with AA potential.

 

*Thomas is another funky pic that could open some eyes. He is extremely difficult to wrestle and will use funk in a lot of situations.  I put him in the same class as Bernstien, one day he will push Dean to the limit and another he will get WORKED by Steinhaus.  Thomas will AA again, not sure where he will fall.

 

*Courts is one of the best pure athletes at this weight. A ton of people have had high hopes for courts as soon as he entered the college scene. Courts has the ability to knock off several guys at this weight, especially if he can get to the right place mentally. Watching his AA match was definitely an indicator that he needs to grow mentally in order to achieve what many have expected.

 

Dark-horse: Avery (Edinboro) and Wheeler (Kent State)

 

*I will stick with my darkhorse from NCAA's this year and say that Avery will surprise people once again this season.  Although many may argue that he is no longer a dark horse, I am not sure they grasp exactly how far I am projecting him to go.  He has had some big wins in the past, most notably Lofthouse at NCAA's (called this one on my predictions earlier). Not many know that he has also beaten Dean (three times), Thomas, and Brooks.  His biggest issue will be if he can stay healthy throughout the season.

 

*Wheeler has shown he has the tools to knock off some big names and can compete with the best. His extreme quickness will help him contend for an AA spot this season.  This will be a big season for the Junior as AA this year will be a great setup for the following year.

 

Other Notables: Stauffer (ASU), Abounader (Mich), Brooks (Iowa), Pfarr (Minn)

 

*Stauffer came to the NCAA's ready to compete and made it to the rd 12. The big question will be, was this a Cinderella run or has he made a massive leap?  Big wins at NCAA's over Abounader and Dudley showed everyone that he has the ability to make a run.  I do not see him near the top of the podium this year but is a big threat to pull a 6-8th.

 

*Abounander is another example of coming on strong at the end of the year. Entering the Big 10 tournament he was somewhere around 15-9, after the Big 10 tournament everyone that was there realized the kid is legit. Possible AA

 

*Brooks is extremely tough, simply put.  Many have projected him in the top 3 already with high expectations. To me, I still need to see more from him until i can place him in the top 5 hunt.  I know Iowa fans are excited to have another wrestler that brings back that "Iowa style" that has seemed to diminish over the years. As of now I have Brooks as a potential AA/Rd of 12 until I see A LOT more.

 

*Pfarr is in a very similar situation as Brooks.  He is another guy that deserves to be ranked but I would hold off on putting him into the top 8 until we see more.  

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Once again I have to say that I find wrestling fans interesting.  Yesterday I was defending Dechow because the belief was that he just couldn't have good work out partners in a lowly school like ODU.  Now I read that Dechow should be ranked 2nd, but a poster is not sure how tough the ODU schedule is?  Apparently several people do not understand the work that some of these schools are doing.  I do not completely disagree with posters who say things like you have to win a title to be great.  That is an opinion that has some merrit?  What I don't understand is this attitude of, if your not in the Big 10 you are in a different level. here are a few of the teams ODU wrestled last year;

Wisconsin

NC State open

Iowa State

Virginia Tech

Southern Scuffle

Edinboro

Virginia

Central Mich.

Missouri

N. Iowa

 

Before people think I am being upset, maybe I am, but believe it or not, there are some really good teams out there that are in the top 25 in the nation. In any other sport, that would be considered really good, maybe great?

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teach,

 

I think you are being a tad oversensitive and reading into things that really are NOT there.

 

1.)  I never said Dechow didn't have quality practice partners.  I said I wasn't sure he had the level that Dean has.  With what Dean has it is reasonable to ask that of MOST schools.

2.)  Questioning a team's schedule is a VERY valid concern as there is no argument against B1G, EIWA wrestlers seeing a (consistently) higher level of competition due to their in conference and conference tournament schedule. 

 

No one has insulted Dechow or ODU.  I happen to find them to be a very solid program.  You simply can't compare them to any of the upper echelon teams.  The fact that we are even having this conversation is a testament to the ODU organization for being in the mix.

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"What I don't understand is this attitude of, if your not in the Big 10 you are in a different level"  I don't think that's a definitive statement, however the stats and history speak for themselves. The Big 10 has a majority of the toughest teams year to year and a majority of the individual champions come from that conference on a regular basis...probably because they beat on each other all season. Are there great wrestlers from other conferences? Absolutely! I am a lowly Pac-12 fan, but can aknowledge that Big 10 wrestling is a level above.

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Ok, for the sake of arguing since it is summer and no college wrestling going on.....

 

it was stated that "I am not sure he has near the quality practice partners and support staff"  that could mean that he has really good people but just not as good, or it could easily be read as they are not good?

 

My problem with the Big 10 is that we are constantly talking about how good the big 10 is and if teams join it they will automatically be better.  I disagree.  Penn St., Iowa, Minni, are always the best.  a few others are very good, and many are average or below.  If you took those average or below teams and put them in any other conference, they still would be average or below.  The big three or four, stand above, the rest are in the fight with everyone else.

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it was stated that "I am not sure he has near the quality practice partners and support staff"  that could mean that he has really good people but just not as good, or it could easily be read as they are not good?

 

 

Or it could mean that he doesn't know. Most of the percieved 'slights' against ODU has been prefaced with a qualifier such as 'I'm not sure' or 'I don't know' and then you get up worked up about it. People are clearly not stating these things as facts so maybe you should take the chip off your shoulder and actually read what is written.

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Wow that was pretty harsh!   I am clearly, or at least trying to state that I am not upset.  I don't have a chip, I stated several times that it is in fun, or for sake of an arguement.... Maybe I am saying some things that are true and it bothers you?    I also feel that when you say something about a kid, or a coach, that may be considered negative by them, may be.... be prepared for a response.  I am not upset, this is better than work, I have an interest in ODU, obviously, so yes I will defend, relax, no anger involved.

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Thanks all.   Good reads.  NESWITCH, you rock.  

 

All in all, gotta say I was hoping for a super frosh to mix things up a bit.  Makes things exciting.  I do agree though that Gabe has not separated himself.  He has some close matches.  A lot of uncertainty in the rankings for top 8 as well … I guess that will be exciting anyway!  

 

Funny - really looking forward to the season but that means that winter is basically here …. bittersweet.

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I find this thread very interesting, in fact I would like to see a similar discussion on all the weight classes.  I believe this weight class is wide open. With the departure of our NCAA finalists there are obviously a couple of front runners but no dominate individuals. I would also like to see a super Frosh appear in this weight class, just to make things interesting. Take a look at the Fila Junior World Team Trials (I know its freestyle not folk) 84Kg bracket . The field included Dean, Robertson (who no one is talking about), Brooks, Pfar, Dechow, Abounader, Dudley, and Sliga. There were some very close matches in this weight class and even though it was freestyle I think its indicative of what were are going to see throughout the season at 184. Include Bernstein, Brown, Thomas, Courts, Avery, etc. and anything can happen! Its gonna be a fun weight class to watch.

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The Missouri Tigers will have a very interesting battle at 184 - Who ever ends up in the lineup will be very much in the mix to AA - Eblen has some quality performances in his resume and Miklus

is a very good talent - both are big 184s

 

Go Tigers

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My problem with the Big 10 is that we are constantly talking about how good the big 10 is and if teams join it they will automatically be better.  I disagree.  Penn St., Iowa, Minni, are always the best.  a few others are very good, and many are average or below.  If you took those average or below teams and put them in any other conference, they still would be average or below.  The big three or four, stand above, the rest are in the fight with everyone else.

 

Hate to nitpick peoples comments but this one statement is ridiculous. Saying that the "average" teams in the Big Ten would be average in other conferences is just pure insanity.  The Big Ten has dominated for years and has done so for a reason.  To demonstrate my point we can use this year for an example:

 

Let's look at a few Big Ten teams that you may consider "Average or Below".... Lets take the 6th and 8th  place team at Big Ten's: Illinois and Michigan .  I picked the MAC conference for this example. The MAC is a well respected and mid-tier conference.

 

Below I labeled the lineup/what they did at NCAA's/Post Season and a projected place finish in the MAC (The projected place finish is an estimate based on the how they did this year vs. the MAC Brackets from this postseason)

 

Illinois: 

125 - Delgado (NCAA Champ) = 1st in MAC

133 - Richards (Rd of 16) = 3rd in MAC

141 - Rodrigues (NQ) = 5th in the MAC

149 - Ervin (DNQ, 8th at B10) = 5th/6th in MAC

157 - Brunson (Rd of 16) = 4th/5th in the MAC

165 - Morse (NQ) = 1st in the MAC

174 - Dallago (Rd of 12) = 1st in the MAC

184 - Reyes (Rd of 16) = 3rd in the MAC

197 - Gonzalez (Rd of 12) = 2nd in the MAC

285 - Lopez (DNQ) = DNP 

 

This team wins the MAC this year, took 6th in the Big 10.

 

Michigan:

125 - Youtsey (NQ) = 2nd/3rd in the MAC

133 - Bruno (Rd of 12) = 3rd in the MAC

141 - Dutton (NCAA 7th) = 2nd in the MAC

149 - Grajales (NCAA 3rd) = 1st in the MAC

157 - Murphy (NQ) = 4th in the MAC

165 - Yates (NQ) = 1st/2nd in the MAC

174 - Zeerip (DNQ, 8th in B10) = 6th in the MAC

184 - Abounader (NQ) = 3rd in the MAC

197 - Heald (DNQ) = DNP 

285 - Coon (Rd of 12) = 2nd in the MAC

 

This team would also win the MAC and took 8th in the Big Tens.

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Hate to nitpick peoples comments but this one statement is ridiculous. Saying that the "average" teams in the Big Ten would be average in other conferences is just pure insanity.  The Big Ten has dominated for years and has done so for a reason.  To demonstrate my point we can use this year for an example:

 

Let's look at a few Big Ten teams that you may consider "Average or Below".... Lets take the 6th and 8th  place team at Big Ten's: Illinois and Michigan .  I picked the MAC conference for this example. The MAC is a well respected and mid-tier conference.

 

Below I labeled the lineup/what they did at NCAA's/Post Season and a projected place finish in the MAC (The projected place finish is an estimate based on the how they did this year vs. the MAC Brackets from this postseason)

 

Illinois: 

125 - Delgado (NCAA Champ) = 1st in MAC

133 - Richards (Rd of 16) = 3rd in MAC

141 - Rodrigues (NQ) = 5th in the MAC

149 - Ervin (DNQ, 8th at B10) = 5th/6th in MAC

157 - Brunson (Rd of 16) = 4th/5th in the MAC

165 - Morse (NQ) = 1st in the MAC

174 - Dallago (Rd of 12) = 1st in the MAC

184 - Reyes (Rd of 16) = 3rd in the MAC

197 - Gonzalez (Rd of 12) = 2nd in the MAC

285 - Lopez (DNQ) = DNP 

 

This team wins the MAC this year, took 6th in the Big 10.

 

Michigan:

125 - Youtsey (NQ) = 2nd/3rd in the MAC

133 - Bruno (Rd of 12) = 3rd in the MAC

141 - Dutton (NCAA 7th) = 2nd in the MAC

149 - Grajales (NCAA 3rd) = 1st in the MAC

157 - Murphy (NQ) = 4th in the MAC

165 - Yates (NQ) = 1st/2nd in the MAC

174 - Zeerip (DNQ, 8th in B10) = 6th in the MAC

184 - Abounader (NQ) = 3rd in the MAC

197 - Heald (DNQ) = DNP 

285 - Coon (Rd of 12) = 2nd in the MAC

 

This team would also win the MAC and took 8th in the Big Tens.

 

Mizzou won the MAC this past year.  I consider it doubtful that Michigan would finish ahead of Mizzou, and not a given that Illinois would, either.  (For the record, Mizzou finished 3 places ahead of Michigan at NCAA's, and a mere 1/2 point behind Illinois).

 

But the fact that you wuold make such a detailed arguement about B1G teams wihtout even taking the trouble to see who won the MAC does, in a way, lend a certain credence to Teach's point!

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Mizzou won the MAC this past year.  I consider it doubtful that Michigan would finish ahead of Mizzou, and not a given that Illinois would, either.  (For the record, Mizzou finished 3 places ahead of Michigan at NCAA's, and a mere 1/2 point behind Illinois).

 

But the fact that you wuold make such a detailed arguement about B1G teams wihtout even taking the trouble to see who won the MAC does, in a way, lend a certain credence to Teach's point!

 

I would read the entire post before coming to drawn conclusions. If I looked up how each wrestler would have done and estimated their place finish in the MAC based off of their post season success and the actual MAC brackets this year, what makes you think I forgot to check who won?  LOL 

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Mizzou won the MAC this past year.  I consider it doubtful that Michigan would finish ahead of Mizzou, and not a given that Illinois would, either.  (For the record, Mizzou finished 3 places ahead of Michigan at NCAA's, and a mere 1/2 point behind Illinois).

 

But the fact that you wuold make such a detailed arguement about B1G teams wihtout even taking the trouble to see who won the MAC does, in a way, lend a certain credence to Teach's point!

 

Wait, the same Michigan that beat Minnesota couldn't out-place Mizzou? I know, dual vs tournament, but really? Also, consider that it is a conference tournament vs national tournament that we are talking about here. MUCH more bonus points to be gained at the conference tournament, and looking at each squad, I think Michigan would win the MAC tournament over Mizzou. Might be a bit close, but it'd be a W.

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Wait, the same Michigan that beat Minnesota couldn't out-place Mizzou? I know, dual vs tournament, but really?

Yes, really.

 

From the NCAA site, top 20:

 

1. Penn St. 109.5

2. Minnesota 104

3. Oklahoma St.

4. Iowa 78.5

5. Edinboro 62

6. Ohio St. 57

7. Cornell 53

8. Virginia Tech 49

9. Northwestern 46

10. Oklahoma 45

11. Nebraska 43.5

12. Iowa St. 42

13. Illinois 41

14. Missouri 40.5

15. UNI 40

16. Wisconsin 36

17. Michigan 35

18. Lehigh 29.5

19. North Carolina St. 24

20. Maryland 21

 

Judging from that, I would say its not a given that either Illinois or Michagan would finish first, or even second in the MAC.  Arguably they could, but not a given.

 

Now I would concede that either team would likely have finished 2nd in the EIWA. ;-)

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