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T-nigs23

Jake Herbert

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Say something on Flo saying he plans to compete next year, hopes to make world team in Vegas, would assume he wants to try to make another Olympic team. He will certainly add depth to a respectable weight nationally, but with the rate Ruth is improving Herbert will have his work cut out for him

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Thanks for the info. I agree that with Ruth showing what he can do with freestyle and the fact that he's only getting better, Jake will have to be in tip top shape if he wants a spot on the team. I hope he does get back to wrestling as that can only be a good thing for USA wrestling. We would have some pretty good depth at that weight with Ed Ruth, Clayton Foster and Jake Herbert assuming he's the same wrestler from a few years ago.

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It is so rare for someone to come back after a long layoff and make a team. I know Cael did it after 7 years off but Jake is not Cael. Jake is great but I think he peaked in 09 and had maxed out his potential learning curve then after taking 2nd in the world. By next year Ruth is going to be untouchable. Ruth is now only losing to Cael and Varner in the room from what I hear. That is an insane improvement even from this years trials. I wouldn't be surprised if he won worlds this year most likely will be around 3rd or 5th. The new ruskie looks pretty tough.

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It is so rare for someone to come back after a long layoff and make a team. I know Cael did it after 7 years off but Jake is not Cael. Jake is great but I think he peaked in 09 and had maxed out his potential learning curve then after taking 2nd in the world. By next year Ruth is going to be untouchable. Ruth is now only losing to Cael and Varner in the room from what I hear. That is an insane improvement even from this years trials. I wouldn't be surprised if he won worlds this year most likely will be around 3rd or 5th. The new ruskie looks pretty tough.

 

 

Who was he previously losing to in the room? 

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He'd kind of have to be beating Cael too for us to be getting really pumped up about his prospects at Worlds.

Cael in the room is still beating Varner at times and could honestly probably make the team at 213 if I am being honest-no desrespect to Varner! Cael is still world champion material especially in the room during 2 min goes. Ruth is right there though according to PSU boards. That tells me he is improving greatly because Varner and Cael were teching him last year. Even Q wright was beating him in the room last year although their matches were pretty even.

Edited by PRyan2012

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I agree with Scribe but Cael's only true loss in his comeback was to a very dominant Sharipov. HIs loss to Saritrov was complete BS-Cael wins that match 8 out of 10. And Cael can still beat Varner at times so CAel and Varner are pretty good gauges for Ruth plus he gives up size to them. I think we all know Cael could have made the team this year at 213 or 189. Ruth is in a good situation at the NLWC. His learning curve is pretty amazing this last year and I like his chances to medal-would have picked him to win it but the new russian and iranian are super tough. He will win it all next year in Vegas. Back to Herbert, he would be competitive but I think Ruth eats his lunch, especially by next year.

Edited by PRyan2012

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That says a lot, if he's going strong with those two animals.  I haven't looked forward to a World Tournament this much for decades.  It's a sport to be proud of again.  I like the sequencing of events.  Let's see what having the Steak and Lobster before the Salad and Dessert does to World Wide Interest.  I'm sure it's in one of the posts, so I'll look for how to watch the Championships on my laptop.   I would be curious what a ppv of the championships would do.   

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Not if Cael is weighing 210-220 in the room.

If 86k is darned near 190lbs, I'd think a guy would have to be in the range of 205 lbs minimally to be competitive on the World class level. Meaning, I'd hope Ruth would be approaching somewhere close to that.

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It doesn't matter what their exact weight is, Cael is quite a bit bigger and that's the point.  I stood next to both of them this summer at a team camp.  

 

I'm sure Ruth can hang with Cael, I just don't think you can draw any conclusions about Ruth's chances based on his practice goes with him.  

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Cael is much bigger than Ruth, that should be obvious to anyone.  For example, in 2011 Burroughs did not roll with Cael at all (according to him) because the size difference was too much.  Today in 2014 he trains with Ed Ruth pretty frequently.  Ruth is small for the weight, Cael was huge for the weight (and sucked down).  Maybe Ruth will end up being overpowered by other 86 kilo opponents because of this fact.  However, if he's actually going toe-to-toe with Cael and Varner now (which I'm personally skeptical of) then that certainly bodes well for his abilities going into Worlds. It does not necessarily mean he will perform on the big stage though, experience (and tactics) can be critical at these events.  Wrestlers like Burroughs are not a dime a dozen. 

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Yea it really was a shame. Cael has longevity in his body if he is still beating both world team members at 189 and 213. Most guys would have been too old by now to hang. Cael would/could have had a career like Big Bruce with around 13 medals. Really a shame!

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What a treat!  I hadn't gone to an NCAA Championship for several years, when Cael won it as a freshman...I haven't missed a tournament since.  A theory that I subscribe to is that men that tend to excel in one area of their life often excel in several.   I'm aware that some feel his inability to snatch a title at ISU, keeps him out of the Elite Coaching Status that I have him in..  If you go strictly by titles, let's face it, he's going to bag several in the next 20 years.  He's going to be in the discussion for GOAT Folkstyle, for GOAT Coach.  Had he continued, he would likely have entered the Greatest Freestyle conversation, but that would have required several more medals or a few more titles.

 

IMO, when at ISU, they started out getting much better from a positional standpoint.  Their good ones were suddenly more difficult to score on.  He possibly didn't have the offensive juggernauts that he picks up now, but I can believe/accept that there may have been one coaching weakness when he first began his profession.   I felt they just couldn't go get points when they needed them.  They didn't quite have the offensive fire power to accomplish what he is doing now.  I do think he has improved as a coach every season, and that he would have a better chance of sealing the deal with the Cyclones now.  I guess it's obvious that Penn State was the sleeping giant that all of my wrestling associates as well as myself have believed they could be for about the last 40 years.  The coach with the most talent usually wins the title, and I don't doubt for one second that he could end his career in the top 2 total titles.  I know I'm biased, but just as many of you have a favorite coach, I believe John Smith is the best, but I have Cael as close, with even more talent available. 

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Gable won as coach early and often. He won with anything, no matter who graduated and who he recruited. There were no down years, only winning. He really revolutionized the sport, I think nationally and even internationally. Cael or anyone else will never be in the discussion of GOAT coaching. Gable would take that current roster after the Ruth/Taylor era and make 2-3 champs and a handful of other AA's and everyone else would qualify for nationals and be the dread of any seeded wrestler who drew them.

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Well, I've certainly never seen anything like the sustained dominance of the Hawkeyes through the 80's and early 90's.  15 Titles seems pretty untouchable, but if Cael gets anywhere near that, some would say that would place him in the conversation.  Especially those who by then, would be too young to remember what Dan actually accomplished, beginning as an assistant coach at ISU, and continuing through his remarkable career..

Edited by smittyfan

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