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Coach_Al

Bracket system - FILA World Championships

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I am not a fan of the current bracketing system at the FILA World Championships. IMO, the final outcome is not a true representation of the top 3 wrestlers. The fact that a wrestler is eliminated after one loss is nuts (pending a wrestler is not carried back into the tournament). Several of our US wrestlers would likely challenge for a bronze medal if given the chance to come back in a true third bracket system. The carry system needs to go. More importantly, FILA needs to do a better job separating top level wrestlers. Too often, world medalists meet in the prelimary rounds.

 

Any thoughts?

Edited by Coach_Al

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I agree, and I think most people on this board will as well. The tournament is so long though, so I don't think doing consolations is possible. The first round for freestyle was from like 12-6 or 7. It would have been probably 50% longer with consolations. 

 

What's your solution?

Edited by CoachWrestling

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I agree, and I think most people on this board will as well. The tournament is so long though, so I don't think doing consolations is possible. The first round for freestyle was from like 12-6 or 7. It would have been probably 50% longer with consolations. 

 

What's your solution?

The solution would be to add more mats (Perhaps 10).

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Also sometimes wrestlers have a very short break between matches.  

 

It would have been nice if they started double elimination at the same time they moved it to 8 weight classes.  

 

Make it over 2 days or whatever, I don't see why a weight class has to finish in one day.

 

 

Did anyone on the board go to Uzbekistan?  That's something I'd like to do one day.

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Agree Scarlet Knight. Having more mats would be the most simple solution. Allowing more time also seems reasonable. The ncaa tournament is 3 days. Does World FS have to be 2?

 

With the lack of seeding and the one and done route, the current system doesn't accurately reward the top 3 wrestlers, imho.

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This goes back to the question of is a tournament to decide the best wrestler or the wrestler who has the best day?  Upsets happen, wrestling people tend to not want upsets unless it is "there" guy.  It does not really bother me if the "best" wrestler in the world does not medal.  I want the wrestler who has the best day to win the tournament.

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preceptor, it isn't just that, but who has the best draw too. Consider the scenario where the three best wrestlers in the tournament are in the same portion of the draw (in any round). Two of them wrestle each other, and then the winner has to turn around and wrestle the third one on short rest. This hurts on two levels, the one where the loser of that second match doesn't has to wrestle back for a bronze (not silver) medal, and the one where the loser of the first match doesn't even get the opportunity to do that, but is awarded whatever place he's finished in (not in the top six) based on everything he's done up until that point. The first part of that issue can only be resolved with seeding, of course, but the other part shows how absurd the current repechage system is.

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They need to seed the tournament. That's an obvious glaring weakness, and I actually think it would help the sport. People love to see rankings, upsets, and stats. 

don't disagree, just imagining the absolute chaos the seeding meeting would be and create. take the NCAAs, then consider that people's livelihoods often depend on the outcome, then take away just about every meaningful piece of data used to come up with the seeds, then add in political bloodfeuds between teams. 

 

if it were that easy i'd be totally down for some world cup style seeding. top 8 wrestlers get their own pools, which wrestle the first day, then the second day seed the 8 winners in a tournament with wrestlebacks for 3rd. or something like that anyway. maybe 6 pools and 2 wild cards?  

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Come up with some sort of transparent (computer-based) ranking system, like most other sports on earth have.

an Elo based rating system perhaps? again, i totally agree with the idea. but is it possible to create a meaningful metric with the meager amount of data produced by number of competitive international matches held every year? i honestly don't know. i hope so, cause that means even if UWW won't, somebody else could still create one. 

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I like the idea of double elimination. If that means a weight class takes two or three days to complete, that's fine with me. 

 

I also like the idea of seeds. (It annoys me that JB and Tsargush have been on the same half of the bracket three out of three times.) Seeds could be limited to the top 8. A computer system for that would be just fine if it was based on performances at a limited number of marquee tournaments. Perhaps continental tournaments, and big invitations like Yarygin. Tiebreakers could be based on head-to-head results from previous years. If you want to be seeded then you better go to one of those tournaments. 

 

Finally, I think it would be great to have the finals for all weights on the same day. It makes it very exciting that way. 

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SHP, I see your point.  Also though, the initial wrestler who lost is at best the 3rd best wrestler at the tournament that day.  I would like to see separation.  Could separate returning World Medalist into different 1/2's or 1/4's if more than 2.  Other than that, seeding would be a nightmare and even if you put a mathematical formula in place, you will start to see people attempt to manipulate the system.

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Do it by country. Gold medal is 1, silver is 2, bronze who lost to gold is 3, bronze who lost to silver is 4.

 

At the next world's at 74 Russia is 1, Japan 2, US 3 and Cuba 4.

 

This is not a particularly good Solution but it's a start until comprehensive rankings can be created.

 

I too would like to see computer rankings, the biggest issue would be rate of competition for many guys. Sure a Tsargush might be motivated to go to ranking tournaments but would guys like north Korea and Cuba be able to afford it?

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Separating medallist works too, of course, but it can create unintended consequences. Think of Russia 65, where they had a choice of past medallist Kubanaliev and the superior Romanov who hadn't yet medalled. A ranking based on past medals could potentially result in the world's best wrestler at the weight staying home.

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