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TBar1977

Marstellar will be at 157

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John Smith is a pretty successful head coach.  I am not going to be the one to second guess him.  Chris Perry sure looked like an ENORMOUS 174lbr.  Heck, he even wrestled 189 in High School and 184 his first Collegiate season.  He ended up taking 3rd, 1st and 1st at 174 with some pretty stiff competition at his weight.  If Smith thinks 157 is the best weight for Marstellar, I believe him.

 

Yeah but Perry looked chubby as hell at 184 pounds. It was obvious to everybody that he belonged at a lighter weight. I think he'd have easily been a 4 time AA if he'd been at 174 his entire career. Heck even wrestling at 184 he still made the quarterfinals.

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Yeah but Perry looked chubby as hell at 184 pounds. It was obvious to everybody that he belonged at a lighter weight. I think he'd have easily been a 4 time AA if he'd been at 174 his entire career. Heck even wrestling at 184 he still made the quarterfinals.

Is that where he met the brick steinhaus or was that in the wrestlebacks?

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I think Ness is beatable by wrestlers who finish quickly on takedowns and stay in good position and in the case of Ian Miller have the fire to fight fire.   Marstellar has been able to finish well but that is not against college elite (iIunderstand that he is finding it more difficult in the OSU room) and he has been able to avoid "funk"situations, again not Ness like funk.  

 

Have to wonder with Deringer in the room if Marstellar can learn what works offensively and defensively against Ness.  I too like Chance in a head to head post season if it happens!

 

Think of Chance as a younger "Tank" and we all know he had no problem with Ness when he was healthy.  By that I mean better on his feet, has some cheap tilts to score with and being a bit squat a low enough center of gravity to fight the elevator stuff.

Edited by BDB50

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Clayton Foster- is blowing a late lead consistent concern with him? I've been a big fan if his freestyle career but he really melted down vs Gavib in this years us open final. That and the pin vs Kilgore... Isolated incidents?

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I think Ness is beatable by wrestlers who finish quickly on takedowns and stay in good position and in the case of Ian Miller have the fire to fight fire.   Marstellar has been able to finish well but that is not against college elite (iIunderstand that he is finding it more difficult in the OSU room) and he has been able to avoid "funk"situations, again not Ness like funk.  

 

Have to wonder with Deringer in the room if Marstellar can learn what works offensively and defensively against Ness.  I too like Chance in a head to head post season if it happens!

 

Think of Chance as a younger "Tank" and we all know he had no problem with Ness when he was healthy.  By that I mean better on his feet, has some cheap tilts to score with and being a bit squat a low enough center of gravity to fight the elevator stuff.

The Cowboy staff has always prepared their kids to win close matches against "match up" problems. 

Marstellar will be one to watch but as the season wears on and if he is "in the hunt" the staff will have him ready to face Ness if he is on that level.

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I think Ness is beatable by wrestlers who finish quickly on takedowns and stay in good position and in the case of Ian Miller have the fire to fight fire.   Marstellar has been able to finish well but that is not against college elite (iIunderstand that he is finding it more difficult in the OSU room) and he has been able to avoid "funk"situations, again not Ness like funk.  

 

Have to wonder with Deringer in the room if Marstellar can learn what works offensively and defensively against Ness.  I too like Chance in a head to head post season if it happens!

 

Think of Chance as a younger "Tank" and we all know he had no problem with Ness when he was healthy.  By that I mean better on his feet, has some cheap tilts to score with and being a bit squat a low enough center of gravity to fight the elevator stuff.

I get where you are going with some of this, but factor in that while Chance may be a "younger Tank", that the Ness that Tank controlled pretty easily was a freshman, where as Chance will be seeing a senior. Senior Molinaro vs freshman Ness not necessarily = to freshman Chance vs senior Ness.

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Tbar1977,

 

What is your match prediction if they do meet up this season? As I recall, you believed that Marstellar could already beat Matt Brown at 174 as a HS senior on the strength of his wins against HS kids. Do you think Chance will win this without too much of a problem?

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Tbar1977,

 

What is your match prediction if they do meet up this season? As I recall, you believed that Marstellar could already beat Matt Brown at 174 as a HS senior on the strength of his wins against HS kids. Do you think Chance will win this without too much of a problem?

 

 

I already told you what I think about Marstellar, but you forget. Not only do you forget, now you are adding things never stated. You have a bad memory, but you are old so it makes sense that this is the case. 

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I was just going back through my memory, and it's not the greatest either, but trying to recall all of the High Expectation Recruits whose careers we've had the pleasure of following.  Surprising how many true super stars are not hyped as much coming out of h.s..  I don't remember hearing all that much about Ruth or Dake until about half way through their freshman years.  The odds are high  that these can't miss guys have great careers.  I knew John and Pat were going to be great collegiate wrestlers, but I didn't see Cael coming.  Dake was a 4X HS Folkstyle Champion, but honestly, I didn't have a clue how amazing he would be.  It seems to me at least, that for every "can't miss" that succeeds, there is one that only the locals really understand how good they will be.  Tommy Chesbro told me over a cold beer in The Blue Room in Stillwater, that timing is crucial to greatness..  I personally will always consider Alan Fried a truly great Cowboy, same with Kenny Monday, but without Tom Brands and Nate Carr, they both enter into the true upper echelon of Collegiate Wrestlers.  Lots of pressure on these young guys, but I suspect when you're this accomplished coming out of high school, there is a superior mental strength which coincides with the other talents.  Pennsylvania High Schools, or actually, Total Overall Programs, are currently and have for decades produced amazing talent.   Oklahoma State is very fortunate indeed to have Coach John Smith at the helm.  A Coach that can sit in any living room in the country and somehow pull guys like this into Oklahoma...fabulous.  I guess you might say I'm a fan:)

Edited by smittyfan

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I was just going back through my memory, and it's not the greatest either, but trying to recall all of the High Expectation Recruits whose careers we've had the pleasure of following.  Surprising how many true super stars are not hyped as much coming out of h.s..  I don't remember hearing all that much about Ruth or Dake until about half way through their freshman years.  The odds are high  that these can't miss guys have great careers.  I knew John and Pat were going to be great collegiate wrestlers, but I didn't see Cael coming.  Dake was a 4X HS Folkstyle Champion, but honestly, I didn't have a clue how amazing he would be.  It seems to me at least, that for every "can't miss" that succeeds, there is one that only the locals really understand how good they will be.  Tommy Chesbro told me over a cold beer in The Blue Room in Stillwater, that timing is crucial to greatness..  I personally will always consider Alan Fried a truly great Cowboy, same with Kenny Monday, but without Tom Brands and Nate Carr, they both enter into the true upper echelon of Collegiate Wrestlers.  Lots of pressure on these young guys, but I suspect when you're this accomplished coming out of high school, there is a superior mental strength which coincides with the other talents.  Pennsylvania High Schools, or actually, Total Overall Programs, are currently and have for decades produced amazing talent.   Oklahoma State is very fortunate indeed to have Coach John Smith at the helm.  A Coach that can sit in any living room in the country and somehow pull guys like this into Oklahoma...fabulous.  I guess you might say I'm a fan:)

 

To further your point, I think Dake 'only' won states 2x, if that is what you are referring to (high school sate tourney). He got beat by Ian Paddock one year in the state finals. I thought Paddock was going to AA multiple times and that Dake was too gawky, not strong enough, and destined to get eaten alive at the D1 level. Oopsie-daisy...

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I already told you what I think about Marstellar, but you forget. Not only do you forget, now you are adding things never stated. You have a bad memory, but you are old so it makes sense that this is the case. 

 

Tbar1977,

 

This is your quote from the "How will Marsteller do in College" thread. Do you still believe it?

 

 

"They'll see. If the kid is healthy he'll dominate guys. Personally, if he weren't wearing a back cast I think he'd beat Matt Brown right now. He has way more offense and he maintains better positioning, plus he is just as strong."

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 Ness is a great wrestler and all but I think he's a bit too inconsistent to beat Marstellar. Marstellar is ALWAYS all around good. I have a feeling he's gonna redshirt this year simply because of the cut. I'd think that to make a cut that big in that short amount of time you probably wouldn't be at your best the first year. So my theory is JSmith will want him to redshirt. I personally would rather see him wrestle this year because I too would love to see the Ness v. Marsetellar matchup. 

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 Ness is a great wrestler and all but I think he's a bit too inconsistent to beat Marstellar. Marstellar is ALWAYS all around good. I have a feeling he's gonna redshirt this year simply because of the cut. I'd think that to make a cut that big in that short amount of time you probably wouldn't be at your best the first year. So my theory is JSmith will want him to redshirt. I personally would rather see him wrestle this year because I too would love to see the Ness v. Marsetellar matchup. 

 

"ALWAYS all around good", but against what type of competition? That may have been true in HS, but there's a big difference between elite D1 wrestling and HS competition. Just look at Chance's own career. When he went up to face college competition as a HS phenom, he went 0-2 at the Jr. trials. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe he lost to Iowa's 3rd string wrestler and another backup from some other school. Many thought Chance was ready to take down the top guys, but he couldn't even beat the 3rd and 4th tier guys.

 

Maybe things have changed. We'll see.

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I think Chance entered that dispite having had the flue........maybe not the best tourny to gage his capabilities on but certainly he never approached Kolats 3rd place at the Midlands when the Midlands were "the open tournament !

 

Admit I was hoping to see Marstellar vs Ness at the scuffle this year then I find out Minny has booked a trip to Hawaii in place of the Scuffle this year!

Edited by BDB50

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Tbar1977,

 

This is your quote from the "How will Marsteller do in College" thread. Do you still believe it?

 

 

"They'll see. If the kid is healthy he'll dominate guys. Personally, if he weren't wearing a back cast I think he'd beat Matt Brown right now. He has way more offense and he maintains better positioning, plus he is just as strong."

 

 

It matters not since there is no chance in hell they will wrestle. 

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