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Wrestling Ph.D.

Flo Premier League - Ben Askren as Commissioner

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I usually don't post on here, instead just read, but felt compelled to post, considering the recent mailbag from T.R. Foley, which was great: http://www.intermatwrestle.com/articles/13472

 

Of note, Flo Wrestling has announced a new "Flo Premier League" with Ben Askren as the commissioner. Without offering my opinion regarding the overall potential and success of the league, including the rules, athletes, fan interest, etc. curious to know TheMat.com message board's perspective on this new league in development, its potential to be successful, and its value to the sport of wrestling as a wholel?

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Here are the Tirapelle rules that I was able to locateL

 

PERIODS

Three 3-minute periods. All begin in the neutral position. 1 minute rest between periods.

Overtime is not timed, first score wins.

 

NEUTRAL

Takedown – 2pts (collegiate folkstyle control required)

Step-out – 1pt (any 2 points of contact by opposing wrestler out-of-bounds)

 

BOTTOM

Escape – 0pts

Reversal – 2pts (collegiate folkstyle control required)

 

TOP

Exposure – 2pts (any exposure past 90 degrees)

Controlled exposure – 3pts (any exposure past 90 degrees with control of 2+ seconds)

Fall (1/2 second fall)

 

CLOCK

Starts at 3:00 and counts down to 0:00 each period

Clock will be stopped for all restarts and by the referee at his discretion

:30 to score exposure upon gaining control

-Match is restarted in neutral position after 30 seconds of no exposure or reversal

-Exposure or reversal restarts the 30-second clock

 

NUANCES

-Wrestler in control may work for exposure/fall or release control at any time.

-If releasing control, referee will signal neutral position when both wrestlers are deemed capable of attacking/defending and can score subsequent takedown.

-Only the wrestler in control can score exposure points. There will be minimal reaction time between establishment of control and scoring of exposure. 

-Only the wrestler in control can gain a fall. No defensive or neutral falls.

-No “same hold” rule. Once a wrestler leaves criteria and is deemed to be able to defend himself, a subsequent exposure can be scored with the same hold.

-Locking hands and all holds with a “wrestling purpose” allowed; “wrestling purpose” defined as holds to take down, reverse, turn, or pin your opponent. Holds solely for the purpose of inflicting pain (submission) or chokes are prohibited

-Illegal holds (as defined above) will be stopped and penalized 1 point at the referee’s discretion.

-All restarts begin on the feet. Stagnant action in any position initiates a restart.

-Dangerous holds will be stopped and a restart initiated. Dangerous holds are when 1 or both wrestlers are unable to surrender a position.

-Scoring holds that happen while simultaneously going out-of-bounds from the feet or top/bottom will be scored.

-Action that carries out of bounds from top/bottom will initiate a restart on the feet. Intentionally leaving the mat area from top/bottom can be penalized 1 point at the referee’s discretion.

-Injury time only at referee’s discretion, both granting and time allotment

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How many more different rule sets does wrestling need?

 

Is nine minutes really crucial to finding out who the better wrestler is or the more conditioned wrestler? For one, I want to know who the better wrestler is. Why can't that be done in six minutes? This was talked about in the past, but how about a scoring analysis of each minute of a match to see if minutes six to seven, seven to eight and eight to nine are even necessary or worthwhile?

 

30 seconds to turn seems to be too much. I'd rather it be 15 seconds, which can be indicated on the clock once a takedown is awarded. For the guys at the level who are looking to have more opportunities to compete, they're working on takedowns to turns anyway. Again, this is another rule that just seems ridiculous and makes for boring matches of guys laying parallel on the mat.

 

I'd like to see forced par terre following a push out, an illegal hold or action that carries out of bounds when one of the wrestlers has established control.

 

I do like that the only guy who can score exposure points is the one who has established control.

 

For top work, give the guy a three count to earn that extra point. That seems like more efficient control than two seconds.

 

In all the rules are decent from my point of view, but some of them, in my eyes, are unnecessary. Some additions to language and scoring opportunities would be nice, too.

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wait is wrestling phd askren

 

only two posts and i have only heard that said with askren

 

BRGuy, I am definitely not Askren :)

 

As much as I would like the FPL to be successful, like T.R. Foley and others noted, having a third set of rules (in addition to folkstyle and freestyle) has its pros and cons. I would just go with freestyle rules, or takedown only.

 

Also, it seems a wrestler without an affiliation to either a country/state or educational institution/franchise doesn't have the same draw and it is difficult to establish real rivalries.

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Everything looks good except for the 9min match. While this rule setdoesn't have the same tiring mat wrestling as folkstyle, I don't want to see these out of shape former NCAA champs with one foot in MMA or freestyle go the whole 9min. 6min match or a tech-fall please.

 

edit: grammar

Edited by GranbyTroll

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9 minutes is way too long.  The 1 minute rest between periods indicates a desire to keep the quality of wrestling high and not turn things into a conditioning match, which then makes the 9 minute match seem even stranger.  Three 2 minute periods would be better.  Also, 30 seconds on top is an eternity if you are allowed to lock hands.  Anyone who has been on the receiving end of a good gut wrench knows that ribs can't handle 30 seconds of torque.  You might be able to break a lock once and defend a gut for 10 seconds, but in 30 seconds it will be nearly impossible to stop a monster on top.  Maybe that's the goal, but even back in the day when they gave you more time on top in freestyle, it still wasn't an open ended 30 seconds.

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9 minutes is way too long.  The 1 minute rest between periods indicates a desire to keep the quality of wrestling high and not turn things into a conditioning match, which then makes the 9 minute match seem even stranger.  Three 2 minute periods would be better.  Also, 30 seconds on top is an eternity if you are allowed to lock hands.  Anyone who has been on the receiving end of a good gut wrench knows that ribs can't handle 30 seconds of torque.  You might be able to break a lock once and defend a gut for 10 seconds, but in 30 seconds it will be nearly impossible to stop a monster on top.  Maybe that's the goal, but even back in the day when they gave you more time on top in freestyle, it still wasn't an open ended 30 seconds.

In freestyle, you are not really supposed to fight the lock with your hands.  People do, but if you fight the lock for long your going to be told to open up.  If you're allowed to grab hands and fight the lock, it might make a difference.  There will also be an incentive to do something on bottom if you know the top guy has 30 seconds to punish you.

 

On balance, it does seem like a 15 second clock makes more sense, though.  Matwork is not audience-friendly.

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Usually nothing happens. Every once in a while the bottom guy gets penalized and then everyone freaks out about it (Abrahaim at the Olympics, Lester vs Madsen, etc). Alexayan got penalized for crawling around on bottom too much last year. Cost him the title.

 

Overall I'm not a huge fan of these new hybrid styles. the current freestyle rules are a lot if fun and it's easy to just add another period, or an overtime, without messing with everything. If you are determined to not do straight freestyle, doing Greco par terre with freestyle standing might be fun.

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jstock: good question.  I don't know the answer - fighting the lock should either be passivity or fleeing the hold, but as far as I know that distinction's not in the rulebook.  Maybe a ref would know how it's supposed to be interpreted.  Either way, in freestyle I assume it would be called as a caution and one penalty point, then back to par terre position.

 

Most refs won't penalize you in that situation, but instead harass you to get you change what you're doing (similar to interlocking fingers).

 

If you're able to break your opponent's lock within a few seconds, then return to a good defensive position -- or maybe threaten a reversal -- I don't think any ref would bother you about it.

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Keep straight freestyle or folkstyle rules, let's not have a 12th set of rules for the sport. Put in a couple minor tweaks like overtime or a consistent par terre clock. These guys that will be competing will be also looking for a top spot on the Olympic team so they shouldn't have to adapt their style to a different set of rules.

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Keep straight freestyle or folkstyle rules, let's not have a 12th set of rules for the sport. Put in a couple minor tweaks like overtime or a consistent par terre clock. These guys that will be competing will be also looking for a top spot on the Olympic team so they shouldn't have to adapt their style to a different set of rules.

I agree, if the idea is to grow a true professional league. I think you would want wrestlers from other countries to come here and compete. They will not do that if they need to learn a new set of rules that will not help them in international tournaments.

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