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Jaroslav Hasek

the "Stay-on-the-Mat-Rule"

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Coach Jones explains it better than anyone I've heard yet:

 

"There has been a lot of discussion about stalling in college wrestling and rule changes. In your opinion, what is one change you would like to see to college wrestling that could help the sport?

Jones: No doubt the edge-of-the-mat rule. You can call it pushout, but I can tell you, I run the numbers, both folkstyle and freestyle. In the freestyle version, in my mind it's not the pushout rule. It's the stay-on-the-mat rule. You can't go out of bounds in freestyle without a steep penalty. I've been breaking down the NCAA championship video right now, and wrestlers just go off the mat way too much. They use the out of bounds to eliminate scoring, where in freestyle the edge of the mat creates scoring. I would love to see some form of a stay-on-the-mat rule, or like most people call it the pushout rule. I think it has been great for freestyle wrestling. The edge of the mat helps create points. It doesn't take away points. I think that would be the best thing we could do for folkstyle wrestling. Not only would it help folkstyle wrestling, it would give America a better chance to win World and Olympic gold medals. So it's a win-win if you ask me. "

 

from a very nice interview by Andrew Hipps on Intermat

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The two-foot step-out rule test really excites me for this years All-Star match. The single biggest problem with NCAA wrestling is how frequently wrestlers leave the mat. Does anyone have time to do a "back out of bounds / offensive attempt" ratio for the Howe v Perry finals? It would have been more exciting as a greco match because then they would have at least had to stay in bounds.

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I would love to see the "push out" rule implemented.  Force wrestlers to stay in bound and wrestle.  It has been proposed to the NFHS but does not seem to get much traction.

 

Not sure how necessary this is in high school.  Most matches are not competitive the way they are in college or internationally, and may lead to more gamesmanship to score the push out rather than encourage active wrestling on the edge.

 

All for this in college, however, as well as a reassessment of riding time.  (I would use RT only to break ties at the end of regulation, not force ties and send matches into OT.)

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Coach Jones explains it better than anyone I've heard yet:

 

"There has been a lot of discussion about stalling in college wrestling and rule changes. In your opinion, what is one change you would like to see to college wrestling that could help the sport?

 

Jones: No doubt the edge-of-the-mat rule. You can call it pushout, but I can tell you, I run the numbers, both folkstyle and freestyle. In the freestyle version, in my mind it's not the pushout rule. It's the stay-on-the-mat rule. You can't go out of bounds in freestyle without a steep penalty. I've been breaking down the NCAA championship video right now, and wrestlers just go off the mat way too much. They use the out of bounds to eliminate scoring, where in freestyle the edge of the mat creates scoring. I would love to see some form of a stay-on-the-mat rule, or like most people call it the pushout rule. I think it has been great for freestyle wrestling. The edge of the mat helps create points. It doesn't take away points. I think that would be the best thing we could do for folkstyle wrestling. Not only would it help folkstyle wrestling, it would give America a better chance to win World and Olympic gold medals. So it's a win-win if you ask me. "

 

from a very nice interview by Andrew Hipps on Intermat

How refreshing! Thank you Coach Jones!

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My thought was that the first person to step out of bounds (in neutral) would get docked a point, but only if they were to both completely leave the cylinder (under current OOB rules) without either entirely coming back into the cylinder or a score being made on either side (which would take precedence).

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My thought was that the first person to step out of bounds (in neutral) would get docked a point, but only if they were to both completely leave the cylinder (under current OOB rules) without either entirely coming back into the cylinder or a score being made on either side (which would take precedence).

This seems a little complicated.

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This should be a no brainer.  It's already been tested in freestyle and has proven to be extremely effective.  Those who enjoy the conditioning aspect of wrestling should be banging this drum.  There is nothing that allows a wrestler to rest more than going out of bounds and constantly resetting.  

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Under current rules, whenever a guy takes a shot, even when in the center of the mat, I find myself wondering if he'll be able to score before going out of bounds.  It's like the edge of the mat is a giant magnet, and the wrestlers are wearing steel singlets.  Action always ends up on the edge, and the classic scene in which one wrestler is trying to drag the other back in, while the defensive wrestler is pretending to wrestle but is really just trying to get out, doesn't excite me.  At least the push out rule forces the wrestlers to do something on the edge other than just go out.  At lower levels of wrestling (high school and below), this is not necessary and could maybe lead to sloppy pushing sumo matches.  But this doesn't happen in freestyle, and there's no reason it would happen in college.  If a wrestler physically can't stay in bounds, then he's not ready for college wrestling.  What we see now in college wrestling is not an inability to stay in bounds, but rather a strategic decision to go out of bounds because the reward (no points) is greater than the penalty (theoretically stalling or fleeing, but often none).

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Christ the overwhelming majority of fans have been screaming for the push out for several years, it's only a small minority that are opposed.  Just do it, before it's too late.

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Why make this complicated at all? 

 

One point of contact out of bounds, you're out of bounds.  If a scoring situation is in process, it scores; otherwise, 1 point to the opponent if you're in neutral.  If you're in top/bottom, the match continues in neutral, with no escape awarded, no points scored.

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Actually, that makes it complicated. Did the move start before the one guy stepped out or not? Although it's somewhat the same with both guys completely out the odds of something happening just as the second guy to leave pulls his second foot off is slim. Usually at that point that guy is struggling to stay in without having the first guy on the floor.

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On the 285 side it scares me a little.  Already you have big guys that don't do much against smaller guys.  Now if they just push the smaller guy out of bounds they get a point.  It may sound like semantics but I am for a step out rule but not a push out rule.  A guy pushing is sometimes doing less than a guy backing.  remember I'm talking mostly 285.

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Actually, that makes it complicated. Did the move start before the one guy stepped out or not? Although it's somewhat the same with both guys completely out the odds of something happening just as the second guy to leave pulls his second foot off is slim. Usually at that point that guy is struggling to stay in without having the first guy on the floor.

Where's the complication? If the move finished (not started) before the one guy stepped out, they're no longer in neutral, and the stepout point isn't awarded. If the move didn't finish, the takedown takes precedence, and therefore the stepout point isn't awarded.

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On the 285 side it scares me a little.  Already you have big guys that don't do much against smaller guys.  Now if they just push the smaller guy out of bounds they get a point.  It may sound like semantics but I am for a step out rule but not a push out rule.  A guy pushing is sometimes doing less than a guy backing.  remember I'm talking mostly 285.

there are effective techniques smaller guys can use to counter a bigger guy just looking to bulldoze someone out of bounds. its quite fun watching the big freestyle heavies try for a pushout and it and seeing the smaller guys give them the ole right out of bounds. 

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Where's the complication? If the move finished (not started) before the one guy stepped out, they're no longer in neutral, and the stepout point isn't awarded. If the move didn't finish, the takedown takes precedence, and therefore the stepout point isn't awarded.

That is exactly the complication. At least on the second part of your statement. As an official, you now have to note that a move is in progress and that someone might be going out of bounds. How far do you allow them to go before stopping it anyway? What if the offensive guy steps out first? Current college rules say your in until your completely out. International stops as soon as something goes out. Officials can mainly look at the ob situation and decide. Now they have to think about a few things at once. The current rules were put in place largely to make it easier to call.

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That is exactly the complication. At least on the second part of your statement. As an official, you now have to note that a move is in progress and that someone might be going out of bounds. How far do you allow them to go before stopping it anyway? What if the offensive guy steps out first? Current college rules say your in until your completely out. International stops as soon as something goes out. Officials can mainly look at the ob situation and decide. Now they have to think about a few things at once. The current rules were put in place largely to make it easier to call.

Here's an example.

 

A and B are in bounds.  A takes a shot.  While driving for the takedown, A steps out first - they both land out of bounds as the move continues.

If A lands in control, a takedown is awarded to A, and there is a neutral restart.

If they land with neither guy in control, B gets 1 point for the push out, and there is a neutral restart.

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Here's an example.

 

A and B are in bounds.  A takes a shot.  While driving for the takedown, A steps out first - they both land out of bounds as the move continues.

If A lands in control, a takedown is awarded to A, and there is a neutral restart.

If they land with neither guy in control, B gets 1 point for the push out, and there is a neutral restart.

Close, but if the takedown is awarded to A, there is a restart with A on top. Otherwise, you nailed it.

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Close, but if the takedown is awarded to A, there is a restart with A on top. Otherwise, you nailed it.

According to which rule set?  I was just making a proposal for how to implement a "stay-on-the-mat-rule."  You go out of bounds, you come back in neutral -- makes sense to me.

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One point of contact out of bounds, you're out of bounds.  If a scoring situation is in process, it scores; otherwise, 1 point to the opponent if you're in neutral.  If you're in top/bottom, the match continues in neutral, with no escape awarded, no points scored.

 

I personally love this idea, but it probably won't take traction until we get the standing pushout. It gives both wrestlers opposing incentives on the edge of the match and could create a lot of action.

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