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NJDan

A crazy plan for dual meets? Or genius?

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This might be a fun addition to dual meets: Tag team matches!

 

No, not like in professional "wrestling," where a guy in trouble tags his partner for relief. Here is how it would work. Each team selects two wrestlers in each weight and list them A & B. First the A wrestlers compete for two minutes. Then B from Team 1 wrestles A from Team 2, followed by B from Team 2 vs. A from Team 2. Then the two B wrestlers compete for two minutes. The scoring would be cumulative. 

 

Here's how it would work in last year's Iowa-Penn State match.

 

At 165 pounds:

 

David Taylor v. Nick Moore for two minutes

Taylor v. Iowa Backup for two minutes

Moore v. Penn State Backup for two minutes

Backup v Backup for two minutes

 

Or you could reverse the order.  

 

This would be a true test of team strength and the results would be more unpredictable.

 

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Personally I would like every point scored by each wrestler be counted toward the meets outcome, supplemental points would be awarded in addition for majors, techs and pins (4 for a major,6 for a tech).  FF or DQ would have to be adjusted also possibly 20 for a ff and bout pts to point of DQ +10.  An example would be last years dual between Minny and PSU and Ness vs Alton.  My memory is a bit fuzzy but you can get the idea.  Ness had a first pd takedown(2-0) followed by a second pd escape(3-0), in the 3rd pd counters Altons TD attempt and puts Dylan on his back for the fall.  Here he gets the 2 for the takedown and 3 nearfall point that would have been awarded, and the riding time point if applicable at the time of the fall plus the 10 bonus points for the fall. My math puts this a 19-0 win for Ness.

 

Note I am a PSU fan....but despite this bout outcome, if this scoring idea was in place PSU wins the dual based on the outcomes of the other bouts.   

 

My biggest reservation for duals determining the team championship is the scoring potential for stars is limited and duals can allow for stall tactics to play too much into the outcome and thus puts our sport in a bad light by awarding inactivity. 

 

I think on a trial basis this might be an interesting idea, similar to random weight selection, If agreed upon by the meets coaches.

Edited by BDB50

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I've thought about having 2 wrestlers per weight in a dual as well. But not in the tag team sense. What made me think of it was the reduction of weight classes at the international level. (A 6-weight class dual is too short.)

 

At the collegiate level, that would make it a 20-match dual (which is probably too long, but interesting to imagine). Again, I wouldn't do tag team. Rather, they would be completely separate matches with each team having 2 guys per weight. This would allow for more strategy when pairing, thus allowing for more upsets (like you see in team sports). The potential for an upset is what makes things interesting.

Edited by wnywrestling

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Crazy.

 

It would just make the teams with more depth even stronger. I too have thought about expanding weight classes.

 

Personally, I would like to see 14 matches wrestled at every dual. Ten matches wrestled for team dual results, just as we do now but the addition for four additional matches (could be changed to two additional weight and serve the same purpose).

 

If only going with two additional weights:

-Home team selects one weight (197) one week in advance of the match and requests that the visiting team fills this weight class with an additional athlete.

-Visiting team selects one weight (141) one week in advance and requests that the visiting team fills this weight with an additional athlete.

 

Already, any match contested between two D1 wrestlers is factored in to RPI towards NCAA qualification. These matches would be official bouts for the season record form.

Match schedule:

Backup 197 vs backup 197

Backup 141 vs Backup 141

 

Official dual scored matches

125

133

141

157

165

174

184

197

285

 

Dual winner determined based on the ten matches wrestled in the scored portion using current methods. The additional matches will have no impact on the team results.

 

If a team fails to send out an athlete the match would be scored a forfeit victory and count on the athletes official record form.

 

This allows teams to get more athletes that are burning eligibility into the prime time events in front of home fans. It provides another match break for commercials, concessions, bathroom breaks, etc. It is kind of like an undercard to warm up the crowd.

 

It would allow a team like Iowa to get both Clark and Gilman matches while they are trying to figure out who will be the starter and give them the chance to compete in front of the home and away crowds. Coaches could reward guys in the room for a good week of practice by letting them compete in a dual. A team could change the additional weights each week so by the end of the season all of their backups have had a chance to wrestle in a dual.

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I've thought about having 2 wrestlers per weight in a dual as well. But not in the tag team sense. What made me think of it was the reduction of weight classes at the international level. (A 6-weight class dual is too short.)

 

At the collegiate level, that would make it a 20-match dual (which is probably too long, but interesting to imagine). Again, I wouldn't do tag team. Rather, they would be completely separate matches with each team having 2 guys per weight. This would allow for more strategy when pairing, thus allowing for more upsets (like you see in team sports). The potential for an upset is what makes things interesting.

This could make dual meets more interesting in terms of strategizing and upsets.  There's a trade-off in that you would see more of the top guys avoiding one another than you do now.

 

A 20 match dual would take something like four hours -- way too long.  You'd probably need a push-out rule and 5 minute matches to make this work.

 

Anything that increases participation is probably a good thing in the long run, though, and should be considered.  I'd also like to see an open qualification system for the postseason (rather than one entrant per school per weight).

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Crazy.

 

It would just make the teams with more depth even stronger. I too have thought about expanding weight classes.

 

Personally, I would like to see 14 matches wrestled at every dual. Ten matches wrestled for team dual results, just as we do now but the addition for four additional matches (could be changed to two additional weight and serve the same purpose).

 

If only going with two additional weights:

-Home team selects one weight (197) one week in advance of the match and requests that the visiting team fills this weight class with an additional athlete.

-Visiting team selects one weight (141) one week in advance and requests that the visiting team fills this weight with an additional athlete.

 

Already, any match contested between two D1 wrestlers is factored in to RPI towards NCAA qualification. These matches would be official bouts for the season record form.

Match schedule:

Backup 197 vs backup 197

Backup 141 vs Backup 141

 

Official dual scored matches

125

133

141

157

165

174

184

197

285

 

Dual winner determined based on the ten matches wrestled in the scored portion using current methods. The additional matches will have no impact on the team results.

 

If a team fails to send out an athlete the match would be scored a forfeit victory and count on the athletes official record form.

 

This allows teams to get more athletes that are burning eligibility into the prime time events in front of home fans. It provides another match break for commercials, concessions, bathroom breaks, etc. It is kind of like an undercard to warm up the crowd.

 

It would allow a team like Iowa to get both Clark and Gilman matches while they are trying to figure out who will be the starter and give them the chance to compete in front of the home and away crowds. Coaches could reward guys in the room for a good week of practice by letting them compete in a dual. A team could change the additional weights each week so by the end of the season all of their backups have had a chance to wrestle in a dual.

 

I really like this idea.  I have been to a couple of college duals where they did an exhibition match or two prior to the start of the dual.  Would be nice to see them all the time.  And would be a nice reward for some of those backup guys.

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Brown opened up vs Storley and finds himself on his back 2x. Next meeting he takes a much more conservative approach to win by 1pt like in prior meetings between the two. Every team uses conservative "stall" tactics to win.

And this is good for wrestling??  I just think when every point scored by each wrestler matters stalling becomes less prevalent.  I think this scoring would be more fair if team duals were to become a part of the determining the national team championship.  The current system is like limiting LaBron James to 20 pts max!!

 

One thought would be to have the top 4-8 teams after the nationals meet in a team dual tourny.  That would minimize the effect on team duals in Feb. Not sure of conflict with "March Madness"but it could be a possibility! 

Edited by BDB50

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Crazy.

 

It would just make the teams with more depth even stronger. I too have thought about expanding weight classes.

 

Personally, I would like to see 14 matches wrestled at every dual. Ten matches wrestled for team dual results, just as we do now but the addition for four additional matches (could be changed to two additional weight and serve the same purpose).

 

If only going with two additional weights:

-Home team selects one weight (197) one week in advance of the match and requests that the visiting team fills this weight class with an additional athlete.

-Visiting team selects one weight (141) one week in advance and requests that the visiting team fills this weight with an additional athlete.

 

Already, any match contested between two D1 wrestlers is factored in to RPI towards NCAA qualification. These matches would be official bouts for the season record form.

Match schedule:

Backup 197 vs backup 197

Backup 141 vs Backup 141

 

Official dual scored matches

125

133

141

157

165

174

184

197

285

 

Dual winner determined based on the ten matches wrestled in the scored portion using current methods. The additional matches will have no impact on the team results.

 

If a team fails to send out an athlete the match would be scored a forfeit victory and count on the athletes official record form.

 

This allows teams to get more athletes that are burning eligibility into the prime time events in front of home fans. It provides another match break for commercials, concessions, bathroom breaks, etc. It is kind of like an undercard to warm up the crowd.

 

It would allow a team like Iowa to get both Clark and Gilman matches while they are trying to figure out who will be the starter and give them the chance to compete in front of the home and away crowds. Coaches could reward guys in the room for a good week of practice by letting them compete in a dual. A team could change the additional weights each week so by the end of the season all of their backups have had a chance to wrestle in a dual.

Division III teams do this at almost every match.

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Division III teams do this at almost every match.

Yes, and it should happen more often IMO. Though this would allow for forfeits to be counted as wins since they would be pre-scheduled matches which doesn't happen now.

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I would think the easiest way to avoid ties would be what has been needed for some time....... a 220 ish weight class.

 

 My memory is not what it once was but I vaguely recall having an exhibition match or two prior to duals at PSU many years ago.  All for getting RSs and depth guys some action.  Now we may see them at our Nittany Lion Open but other than that you have to travel or if your lucky catch them on Flo or something along those lines!

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Maybe not if only the home team wrestler is a RS and is not wearing the team singlet!   Would be a nice experience for a RS freshman if allowed!  Obviously traveling with the team to an away dual would be a no no!

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Redshirts are only allowed in opens because they are entering as non-collegiate athletes. (Though it has been perverted with allowing those matches to count for their collegiate opponents). If wrestling in the dual required being a collegiate athlete than it would burn a year of collegiate eligability. (Mobile)

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