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RichB

Pa Catholic school wrestlers must forfeit togirls

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Let's keep the trolling to a min.

You must be joking.  The guy makes a bigoted statement, I express my thoughts on something that was clearly inflammatory to an entire group of people, and I'M trolling?

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FWIW, if you don't want girl's wrestling the boys in HS, then you need to support girls wrestling as a stand alone sport in your states. If You do not get this enacted then the girls.... via Title IX..... have the right to wrestle. It's a simple as that. Several states have done just that. Until you have your states enact that - and generally speaking when other states have done this the amount of girl wrestlers increased to where they actually have their own legitimate state tournaments - then you have to put up with situations such as this. It's not going to change.

 

Not supporting or not supporting the debate as a whole, I have long since caring about this part of the sport, but I do have a lot of knowledge about it and am just pointing out the landscape.  

 

Title IX gives girls the right to compete in sports, but not necessarily in wrestling against boys.  The case law regarding contact sports is quite mixed (Page 350):

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=H0ObMag1aZMC&pg=PA352&lpg=PA352&dq=girls+have+the+right+to+compete+against+boys+in+high+school+wrestling&source=bl&ots=F2GJg3-F_-&sig=In5TLD7nf9MR5ELUUUwMio1pQvU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JVZJVNuDMdG_iQL0oYD4BA&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=girls%20have%20the%20right%20to%20compete%20against%20boys%20in%20high%20school%20wrestling&f=false

 

BTW, not to go completely men's rights on everyone, but here is an article from today's Washington Post on a local high school boy not being allowed to play on the the girls' field hockey teams.  It's a non-contact sport, he's only 5'3", but he has consistently been found to be too good for competitive purposes:

 

 http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/highschools/keeling-pilaro-cant-play-field-hockey-with-girls-but-he-and-episcopal-help-each-other/2014/10/22/b5b70b82-5475-11e4-809b-8cc0a295c773_story.html

Edited by Voice_of_the_Quakers

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I think PIAA needs to establish boys field hockey possibly using teams of 5-8 players,probably with many co-ops.

 

 

But for someone whose handle implies he i sa south eastern Pennsylvanian to say Field Hockey is non-contact??????

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I'm originally from Central New York (Section III) and wrestled at Penn.

 

Field hockey is non-contact like basketball, which, compared to wrestling and other combat sports, is extremely non-contact.

 

Actually played a little bit of field hockey.  Fun sport - shame there aren't more opportunities for men in the states.  Anyone playing lacrosse in the spring could easily get their conditioning work in the fall with this sport, like many women already do.

Edited by Voice_of_the_Quakers

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Tennis, volleyball, golf are non contact sports, To say Basketball, Field hockey, and water polo are non contact sports is ludicrous. (the famous 1956 gold medal game USSR-Hungary looked like there were piranha  in the pool. I suspect most TheMat readers have never been to a Field Hockey game, or not to a game where the sport is important, but in the epicenter of USA field hockey, in SC-SE Pennsylvania, it is known to be a rugged endeavor, fatalities have occurred.

 

None of that means a boy should not play, or at least practice with girls. Just like to see a discussion based on accurate parameters.  

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Outstanding Wrestler Award - Alex Ekstrom (PM)

 

Championship Final (1st)

 

 96 -  Jacob Goddeau (Peru) > Carlene Sluberski (Fredonia), DEC 7-2 103 -  Arik Robinson (Peru) > Colton Dalberth (Marion), DEC 4-0 112 -  Kyle McGregor (Tonawanda) > Kyle Crisafulli (Phoenix), DEC 2-0 119 -  Matt Peters (EA) > Quinton Murphy (Holley), DEC 4-0 125 -  Nick Wilcox (Greene) > Sean Walton (PM), DEC 6-4 130 -  Derak Heyman (Tioga) > Genta Murayama (Edgemont), DEC 8-6 135 -  Alex Ekstrom (PM) > Ian Paddock (Warsaw), DEC 4-3 140 -  Kyle Dake (Lansing) > Mike Nevinger (Letchworth), DEC 2-1

 

Why the knock on D2 NY.  I see some pretty good D2 guys there...dake nevinger, paddock, Wilcox...Heyman, Murphy.  

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Title IX gives girls the right to compete in sports, but not necessarily in wrestling against boys.  The case law regarding contact sports is quite mixed (Page 350):

 

http://books.google.com/books?id=H0ObMag1aZMC&pg=PA352&lpg=PA352&dq=girls+have+the+right+to+compete+against+boys+in+high+school+wrestling&source=bl&ots=F2GJg3-F_-&sig=In5TLD7nf9MR5ELUUUwMio1pQvU&hl=en&sa=X&ei=JVZJVNuDMdG_iQL0oYD4BA&ved=0CD0Q6AEwAw#v=onepage&q=girls%20have%20the%20right%20to%20compete%20against%20boys%20in%20high%20school%20wrestling&f=false

 

BTW, not to go completely men's rights on everyone, but here is an article from today's Washington Post on a local high school boy not being allowed to play on the the girls' field hockey teams.  It's a non-contact sport, he's only 5'3", but he has consistently been found to be too good for competitive purposes:

 

 http://www.washingtonpost.com/sports/highschools/keeling-pilaro-cant-play-field-hockey-with-girls-but-he-and-episcopal-help-each-other/2014/10/22/b5b70b82-5475-11e4-809b-8cc0a295c773_story.html

 

Nah, I used to do this for years (had a pretty good girl wrestler kid at one time), in HS, with official federation rules, it is settled law they have to be given an opportunity. Say no, and a lawyer takes it to the federation and they cave. The states who really don't like it give them equal footing (who would have thunk conservative Texas would be a pioneer on this - they understood the game - duh)Now opponents can forfeit to them, and they have to earn their spots, and non public schools can disallow them, but there is no public schools, at the HS level, in recent memory which has won. The closest I have seen recently was in JH in Pennsylvania, and in the end the district lost - at an enormous expense to thie district. And I get your analogy for the young man, but that is just blurring the issue, and to fight this to much, only strengthens Title IX and it's effects on men non-revenue sports. Fighting this battle in a public way makes you look anti female in athletics and in general (even if it isn't true) and is political suicide, and has been for decades. You may not like this, you may disagree, but it has been the reality for a very long time (you want numbers on mens non-revenue sports being cut - it's pretty ugly) and to seemingly perpetuate this only hurts mens sports. 

 

PS - To your links...... it's the internet, I can find anything, anywhere, to make any point I want. I could flood you with links but I think it would be a waste of time given I already have given up on this sport in a coaching and financial way, consider the sport it's own worst enemy (could back that up with links too), but like to watch it and follow it enough to totally get rid of it. At least I am not going bankrupt anymore spending money I don't have on a sport that is it's own worst enemy. That is something. 

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Nah, I used to do this for years (had a pretty good girl wrestler kid at one time), in HS, with official federation rules, it is settled law they have to be given an opportunity. Say no, and a lawyer takes it to the federation and they cave. The states who really don't like it give them equal footing (who would have thunk conservative Texas would be a pioneer on this - they understood the game - duh)Now opponents can forfeit to them, and they have to earn their spots, and non public schools can disallow them, but there is no public schools, at the HS level, in recent memory which has won. The closest I have seen recently was in JH in Pennsylvania, and in the end the district lost - at an enormous expense to thie district. And I get your analogy for the young man, but that is just blurring the issue, and to fight this to much, only strengthens Title IX and it's effects on men non-revenue sports. Fighting this battle in a public way makes you look anti female in athletics and in general (even if it isn't true) and is political suicide, and has been for decades. You may not like this, you may disagree, but it has been the reality for a very long time (you want numbers on mens non-revenue sports being cut - it's pretty ugly) and to seemingly perpetuate this only hurts mens sports. 

 

PS - To your links...... it's the internet, I can find anything, anywhere, to make any point I want. I could flood you with links but I think it would be a waste of time given I already have given up on this sport in a coaching and financial way, consider the sport it's own worst enemy (could back that up with links too), but like to watch it and follow it enough to totally get rid of it. At least I am not going bankrupt anymore spending money I don't have on a sport that is it's own worst enemy. That is something. 

 

Uh...thanks for your...joy?...feedback?...passion?...insight?...someone help me out here.

 

You realize, this is a message board for fans, right, delusional as we seem to be?

 

Don't let the door of this sport hit your a** on your way out.

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I, of course, was knocking DII that year. Dake only won 2-1. Paddock beat Dake the year before. Wilcox DI starter, among many others as you all know..

Dake "only" won 2-1 over future 2x NCAA AA and 2x NY returning state champ Mike Nevinger.

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Well what ashame ...

 

I remember The Brendlinger sister from Slippery Rock high school in PA and they kicked a ton of solid wrestlers a$$e$.  If you know these girls you know what im talking about. 

 

They could hang with anyone.

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Uh...thanks for your...joy?...feedback?...passion?...insight?...someone help me out here.

 

You realize, this is a message board for fans, right, delusional as we seem to be?

 

Don't let the door of this sport hit your a** on your way out.

You do realize that chasing off fans of the sport who have spent tens of thousands of dollars on the sport, that is a marginal sport at best, losing traction in college, and may yet lose the Olympics, is pathetic marketing and PR. You wonder why the majority of people consider wrestling as Hulk Hogan (or whoever is the star these days) is because people like you are so myopic that you actually chase off fans of the sport. 

 

Nah, on further review, you don't get it. But the next time a college closes a program (I have actually been a part of several programs starting up - not the biggest part - but a part), and needs some money, they don't get mine. So yeah, you have a pyrrhic rhetorical win, but how does that support the sport you love (and I still do in spite of people like you).

 

I am guessing you are HS only...... or at the very least don't work in a customer oriented business. Because if you did/are, you would realize that - while the customer isn't ALWAYS right - they usually are right, and do not chase off your bigger customers. And if you by chance do, try to get them back. At the very least mitigate the situation so they don't bad mouth a  rather small market trying to GET business not chase it off. Something you - probably a government worker - couldn't possibly get. 

 

Brings me back to my observation that wrestling worst enemy is itself. You are almost a case study of this. I teach college classes, I may bring this up as something for my students to address. It's a good one (and will actually help knowledge of the sport).

 

Try not to be stupid with a marginal sport..... the sport needs all the help it can get. And try to rub that red stuff off your neck. It's hideous looking. 

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You do realize that chasing off fans of the sport who have spent tens of thousands of dollars on the sport, that is a marginal sport at best, losing traction in college, and may yet lose the Olympics, is pathetic marketing and PR. You wonder why the majority of people consider wrestling as Hulk Hogan (or whoever is the star these days) is because people like you are so myopic that you actually chase off fans of the sport. 

 

Nah, on further review, you don't get it. But the next time a college closes a program (I have actually been a part of several programs starting up - not the biggest part - but a part), and needs some money, they don't get mine. So yeah, you have a pyrrhic rhetorical win, but how does that support the sport you love (and I still do in spite of people like you).

 

I am guessing you are HS only...... or at the very least don't work in a customer oriented business. Because if you did/are, you would realize that - while the customer isn't ALWAYS right - they usually are right, and do not chase off your bigger customers. And if you by chance do, try to get them back. At the very least mitigate the situation so they don't bad mouth a  rather small market trying to GET business not chase it off. Something you - probably a government worker - couldn't possibly get. 

 

Brings me back to my observation that wrestling worst enemy is itself. You are almost a case study of this. I teach college classes, I may bring this up as something for my students to address. It's a good one (and will actually help knowledge of the sport).

 

Try not to be stupid with a marginal sport..... the sport needs all the help it can get. And try to rub that red stuff off your neck. It's hideous looking. 

 

You're right, about me and everything.

 

Ciao.

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