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wnywrestling

How Wrestling Wins (Wade Schalles)

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The wrestling powers would do well if they were to embrace Schalles' ideas.......... he really has wrestlings best interests at heart. It seems to me the power guys in wrestling have what is best for THEIR interests in mind.

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Wade has decent ideas, but he also throws out things without much facts or makes a huge grand statement to "capture" the reader.

 

Fact is, wrestling programs are growing at the college level, except D I, but with Fresno St coming back, and possibly some others, that could change the trend.

 

I'm not saying he is off base or wrong, or he doesn't have good ideas, I just think he likes to mislead slightly to get his point across.

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He brings up a lot of good points, but only a few solutions.

 

Also, the top man hanging onto an ankle or not attempting to return from rear-standing is absolutely stalling.

I too don't see him offer solutions; perhaps they're forthcoming. But I think he has a point about hanging onto the ankle. If the bottom man is just trying to escape by pulling his leg free, hoping for a stalling call, then who's really stalling? To free yourself from that position, you need to grab his wrist and hold it to the mat as you stand; it's very effective. If you're not attacking where he's holding you, then you're the one who's stalling.

 

EDIT: Either way, though they can probably be improved, I doubt if changing the stalling rules will have any effect on saving the sport or making it grow.

Edited by wnywrestling

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Part 6 is really good.

 

There is some stuff worth reading there.

 

He proposes changing the format of the season to preseason tournaments, 12 dual meets, then the conference and national tournaments.  He doesn't address the team/individual championships issue.

 

In my opinion, having only one dual a week (maybe always on Sundays?), and running the whole season during the Spring semester might be a good way to go.  Fewer weight cutting days, only one weight cutting semester. Fans could get into an attendance/viewership ritual.

 

The other problem is how to balance having a dual championship with the current individual championships.  I wouldn't have a problem with running a tournament season in January and February (crowning individual national champions and All-Americans in February), then running duals from February to May (crowning team conference and national champions in May).  Based on what I've read on here, I think a lot of people would object to that kind of restructuring.

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As I noted on another thread on this forum, another way to improve the sport's status, particularly in college, is to put a full court press on finding rich alumni who are no longer following the sport as much as they once were. This is not an easy task, but the chance for a major impact is high if we could get even a handful of high net worth sponsors to gain interest. Even one or two such guys every couple of years could make a huge difference, and those kind of low numbers are very achievable for the entire wrestling community in this country as whole.

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Part 7 is out. To his criticism of the 45-minute rule, I suspect it's so that, in tournaments especially, no wrestler has an unfair rest advantage over another. In dual meets, however, I wouldn't mind if "doubling up" were allowed. Obviously, when you (or your coach) choose to double up, you're choosing to forego the normal rest period.

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I've read every part posted thus far and overall I think he has a lot of very strong ideas. I think he is dead right about the philosophy that spectators = positive revenue = growth = security on every campus. And I think he is right that the spectators the sport does not yet have would be far more attracted to 2 hour duals than all-day individual tournaments. All-day individual tournaments have their place and will thankfully never go away, but I think he's right about the need to pursue a more dual-centric culture.

 

The integrity of the sport cannot be compromised in the pursuit of spectators, but I don't recall thinking any of his ideas would compromise the integrity of the sport. 

 

I'd love to see some competitions that implemented some of his ideas to see how they worked. I like the idea of the team score matching the score of each match. This gives every wrestler, every moment, incentive to score. I think wrestlers would be far less likely to give up when losing or start coasting when winning if each point directly impacted his teams bottom line. Even if some ringer put up like 20 points each match and carried his team, so what? Individuals carry teams in every sport. Hockey goalies stand on their head and carry their team. A hot player in a basketball game carries his team. A great QB can carry a football team.

 

Part of what will attract spectators is an easier learning curve to the sport and making team points equal to match points helps this. At the very least, I'd love to see it experimented with to see how it works. I also like the idea of nearfall points being one point for each second. I believe he had it going up to 5 points for 5 seconds, but I'd be okay with going up to 3 points for 3 seconds too. 

 

I liked a lot of his other ideas as well, but I won't list them all here. 

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I know that this seems very "high school", but maybe wrestling on some of these campuses needs to take a more grass roots approach and take a few hours each week for the wrestlers and their coaches to self-promote in their classes, at the library, in the quad/student center, in the dorms at faculty and staff meetings and in their neighborhoods. From a strict marketing stand point, that direct contact with someone who is directly involved with what you're promoting goes a whole lot further than simply updating your team's page on the athletics website or an announcement on the university's daily calendar. You want the people around you embracing your cause? TELL them about it. 

 

Personally, I love the out door duals that Stanford holds or the practices in the student center other schools have done and certainly the duals in Time Square. All of those things benefit wrestling, whether it be financially or in terms of image of the sport.

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Personally, I love the out door duals that Stanford holds or the practices in the student center other schools have done and certainly the duals in Time Square. All of those things benefit wrestling, whether it be financially or in terms of image of the sport.

 

I agree. And if the sport is structured mainly around 2 hour duals rather than all-day individual tournaments, I think there is a better chance that a better image will translate into better finances. If someone happened upon one of the things you mentioned and was interested enough to check something else out, chances are far greater they will show up to a 2 hour event where it's team against team than an all-day individual event where they don't know any of the individuals. 

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Thought I'd put out a spread sheet to see how the bout score = team score idea would stack up in this years' NCAA meet. The top 4 officially were OSU, Iowa, Edinboro, and Missouri. Adding up only the bout points, including points scored in lost matches, and using 15 for a tech and 20 for pins / forfeits, the top 4 would have been:

 

IOWA 336

OSU 330

Missouri 298

Edinboro 250

 

Iowa had the most AAs of all teams, six. More AAs = more bouts and bout points. This is what put them ahead. Edinboro dropped a notch due to lacking qualifiers and AAs and I didn't forget to cancel Eblen's bout points for the head butt.

 

 

Tournaments aren't very friendly in this experimental scheme due to differences in number of qualifiers and mixing good teams with mediocre teams. Probably would work better for duals unless a team with 3 huge wins and 7 losses is the dual winner. This is a glaring difference, whereas in other sports the whole team wins or loses. In wrestling some get their hand raised others not. People are going scratch their heads at this sort of scoring "logic" when a lot of losers beat a lot of winners.

 

We may have to accept the hard reality that college wrestling is limited in its acceptance by the general public. The inactivity and complex scoring are negatives that can't be solved easily. We may be tilting at windmills, especially given the conservative nature of rules makers.

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Ditto coach. I've always wondered why folks can't accept that wrestling doesn't appeal to the vast majority. When I was working and put in for time off at least on off the smart ass firefighters I worked with would comment that I was going off to watch men in tights roll around on the floor with each other. An obvious reference to the greatest Robin Hood movie of all time, but nontheless, an apt "civilian" description of the sport we love.

Edited by Bloate

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It's past time to change wrestling uniforms. That said, those firefighters would get their a$$es handed to them by those guys in tights. I always invited those stating such things to come to the gym, in their shorts, to get first hand experiences. ALL were too skeered to try. Talk is cheap.

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We all know how tough wrestlers are in combat sports, but that don't put asses in seats. To reverse the situation, put the average wrestler/wrestling fan in about 120 lbs of gear, holding and discharging 250 gal per minute hi pressurized hose in a 500 degree closed in atmosphere and see who gets their asses handed to them.

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