Danishek v Jordan @ MSU...

[silver-medal 670]

Vak:  Agree that Gilman is favored over Tomasello.  As to 197 and 165, you're obviously waiting for more evidence.  That's fine.  I'll only ask that when it's provided, you acknowledge it.  

[silver-medal 670]

RAH:  Here is Bucks line-up

125: Nate Tomasello

133: Johnni DiJulius

141: Logan Stieber

149: Hunter Stieber

157: Josh Demas

165: Bo Jordan

174: Mark Martin

184: Ken Courts

197: Kyle Snyder

Hvy: Tavanello or Haines

[MSU158 2,008]

RealAmericanHero,

 

 

I am not sure what years you are referring to, but tOSU is as deep at 10 weights as I can remember any team being in quite a while.  DiJulius is at 133 and he did beat Colon last year.  Admittedly he has yet to put it together at Nationals but he has always been at a super deep weight.   With the way 133 has cleared out I think he has a very good shot to AA.  Also reports are circulating that True Freshman Haines has won the spot at 285.  The kid is a physical freak and could win a couple matches and possibly reach the podium at the NCAA tournament.  In another week or 2 I think you will see a tOSU wrestler ranked top 10 in every weight. 

 

tOSU's current Intermat rankings per weight:

 

125:11

133:7

141:1

149:4

157:7

165:13

174:11

184:8

197:7

285:10                                  Not sure where you see a team that has holes that in other years would put them behind?

[TBar1977 4,532]

To back up MSU's point, Thomasello and Bo Jordan are both ranked in the top 10 by other services. Martin at 174 is a 10 to 14 ranking in my view. Tavenello is ranked anywhere from 10 to 15 but would drop after this past weekend, but he may be replaced by Haines who has a ton of potential. Ohio State is probably about in the same place at Hwt as is Minnesota where Kroells is a borderline top 10 guy.

 

WIN has there Tournament Index up already, and they have Minnesota #1 with 76 points. Ohio State is 4th with 66 points. But WIN acknowledges that they did not use Thomasello, Bo Jordan and Kyle Snyder in their Tournament Index. They acknowledge that had they used these three guys where they believe they will be ranked, then Ohio State is #1. I agree with all that.

[TBar1977 4,532]

It's one weekend.  Dry yourself off.

 

Snyder beat a guy who went 1-2 at the NCAA tournament last year at a weight that has 6 of 8 returning AAs from last season, including the champion.  Lets have him beat an All-American before we go crazy.

 

 

 

Snyder is a Junior World Champion. You might want to figure that into the equation somewhere. 

[TBar1977 4,532]

And Gilman beat Tomasello two straight at the Junior WTT, so....

 

 

OK. I suspect they have a close match. 

[MSU158 2,008]

Vak,

 

I admit Iowa has become my replacement team.  I will ALWAYS root for MSU wrestlers but I have officially given up!  Yet with that said I think you had your black and gold tinted glasses on when you picked your dual outcomes.

 

125: Gilman is a slight favorite and this is closer to a toss up, but I have no issue with you giving it to Iowa

133: This should be a toss up.  Clark has yet to prove himself up a weight and DiJulius did beat Colon last year.  Clark hasn't done enough yet to say he is better than Colon was last year.

141:  I know Iowa is great at blocking bonus against them but this could be a Pin or TF very easily.

149:  Until Iowa establishes someone here, and even if they do, Stieber is very likely to pick up bonus.

157:  Demas is a clear favorite until proven otherwise

165:  Toss up  At Carver Moore wins, anywhere else I am not so sure

174:  Iowa's only clear favorite with the exception of 285

184:  Toss up at best.  I like Brooks a lot too but he has yet to show anything to put him as a favorite over Courts

197:  Calling this a toss up is where I really think you had your Iowa glasses on.

285:  Telford should handle either Tavanello or Haines

 

Brands is a dual master and I like his chances of finding a win but Ryan does have some decent recent(I like putting those two words together) history against the Hawks.  I like Iowa's chances but the likelihood of tOSU winning 8 matches is a LOT higher than Iowa doing so.

 

 

I like Minnesota's chances even less.

 

125: Could get real ugly for Minnesota

133: How will Dardanes handle the weight cut?  His weakness is bottom and DiJulius is a hammer on top.  Still Dardanes is the favorite

141:  Dardanes' do not do well against Stieber.  This will at the very least be a TF.

149:  Very likely another Stieber major

157:  Ness all the way at the NCAA tournament but who knows in a dual?

165:  Very likely another run away win for tOSU

174:  Storley clear favorite but bonus very unlikely

184:  Not sure what Pfarr has done to warrant this match up being called a tossup?

197:  I really, really am looking forward to this match

285:  I know Kroells destroyed Tavanello early last season but this is 285, still I have no issue calling Minn the favorite here.

 

Although I see Minnesota as clear favorites at more weights than Iowa they will definitely give up more Bonus.  I understand all the doubters but Guys, trust me, tOSU is the team to beat!

Edited November 3, 2014 by MSU158

[CoachWrestling 432]

Peyton Walsh is not Taylor Walsh's brother.

 

 

Correct.  Chad Walsh of Rider would be Taylor's brother.

 

Lol silly mistake. 

[TBar1977 4,532]

Anyway, here's how I see it:

 

Iowa-tOSU

 

125:  Iowa

133:  iowa

141:  tOSU MD

149:  tOSU (assuming Hunter wrestles...sat out again this weekend.)

157:  tOSU

165:  Toss up

174:  Iowa

184:  Iowa

197:  Toss up

HW:  Iowa

 

 

Changes I would make:

 

125 from Iowa to toss up

165 from toss up to Ohio State

184 from Iowa to toss up

197 from toss up to Ohio State

[TBar1977 4,532]

Vak,

 

I admit Iowa has become my replacement team.  I will ALWAYS root for MSU wrestlers but I have officially given up!  Yet with that said I think you had your black and gold tinted glasses on when you picked your dual outcomes.

 

125: Gilman is a slight favorite and this is closer to a toss up, but I have no issue with you giving it to Iowa

133: This should be a toss up.  Clark has yet to prove himself up a weight and DiJulius did beat Colon last year.  Clark hasn't done enough yet to say he is better than Colon was last year.

141:  I know Iowa is great at blocking bonus against them but this could be a Pin or TF very easily.

149:  Until Iowa establishes someone here, and even if they do, Stieber is very likely to pick up bonus.

157:  Demas is a clear favorite until proven otherwise

165:  Toss up  At Carver Moore wins, anywhere else I am not so sure

174:  Iowa's only clear favorite with the exception of 285

184:  Toss up at best.  I like Brooks a lot too but he has yet to show anything to put him as a favorite over Courts

197:  Calling this a toss up is where I really think you had your Iowa glasses on.

285:  Telford should handle either Tavanello or Haines

 

Brands is a dual master and I like his chances of finding a win but Ryan does have some decent recent(I like putting those two words together) history against the Hawks.  I like Iowa's chances but the likelihood of tOSU winning 8 matches is a LOT higher than Iowa doing so.

 

 

I like Minnesota's chances even less.

 

125: Could get real ugly for Minnesota

133: How will Dardanes handle the weight cut?  His weakness is bottom and DiJulius is a hammer on top.  Still Dardanes is the favorite

141:  Dardanes' do not do well against Stieber.  This will at the very least be a TF.

149:  Very likely another Stieber major

157:  Ness all the way at the NCAA tournament but who knows in a dual?

165:  Very likely another run away win for tOSU

174:  Storley clear favorite but bonus very unlikely

184:  Not sure what Pfarr has done to warrant this match up being called a tossup?

197:  I really, really am looking forward to this match

285:  I know Kroells destroyed Tavanello early last season but this is 285, still I have no issue calling Minn the favorite here.

 

Although I see Minnesota as clear favorites at more weights than Iowa they will definitely give up more Bonus.  I understand all the doubters but Guys, trust me, tOSU is the team to beat!

 

 

 

I see this virtually exactly the same way. 

[VakAttack 4,014]

Vak:  Agree that Gilman is favored over Tomasello.  As to 197 and 165, you're obviously waiting for more evidence.  That's fine.  I'll only ask that when it's provided, you acknowledge it.  

I picked BoJo in the second round of my fantasy draft.  You won't have to wait long for me to acknowledge how awesome I think he is.  I just think Nick Moore is also awesome and better than Taylor Massa.  However, I will NOT be shocked in the slightest if/when BoJo beats him, or if Snyder beats Burak.  I just think Burak is a step up from Wellington (and Schiller at least one step above Burak).  I think BoJo is a legit title threat, and Snyder just a hair below that by the end of the season.

[silver-medal 670]

Nick Dardanes gave Logan a very tough match over summer in freestyle.  Hard not to see him as a big wildcard at 141 due to his size and power.  Not favoring him over Logan but he won't be afraid.

[RealAmericanHero 127]

Ohio State has DiJulius at the 133 pound weight class.

 

That is correct. That is my mistake. I guess I am confused as to why he has not surfaced as of yet.

 

silver-medal - that is a nice line-up. I will be interested to see the results for the two duals I mentioned earlier. But I will have to wait until February to see them.

 

As far as Tavanello, he could have had a bad weekend. In retrospect, I may have been too harsh in writing him off. But that could be a moot point if Haines steps in to fulfill the role of heavyweight for the Buckeyes.

 

MSU158- My first point of that post dealt with no real clear-cut favorite for this year and with that as a context, my statement of Ohio State having two holes makes more sense. Aside from the point that I failed to factor in DiJulius at 133, they could still get by with a heavyweight who reaches the round of 12 again.

 

Did Courts (184) not wrestle for Ohio State this weekend?

Edited November 3, 2014 by RealAmericanHero

[silver-medal 670]

I picked BoJo in the second round of my fantasy draft.  You won't have to wait long for me to acknowledge how awesome I think he is.  I just think Nick Moore is also awesome and better than Taylor Massa.  However, I will NOT be shocked in the slightest if/when BoJo beats him, or if Snyder beats Burak.  I just think Burak is a step up from Wellington (and Schiller at least one step above Burak).  I think BoJo is a legit title threat, and Snyder just a hair below that by the end of the season.

 

well, the beauty of our sport is that we'll find out.

 

Edited November 3, 2014 by silver-medal

[RealAmericanHero 127]

I would like to point out that Ohio State in a bit new to me. For the longest time I have been watching Cornell, Oklahoma State, and Arizona State.

 

If it seems that I am bashing or have an axe to grind concerning the Buckeyes, it is not that way at all. It is just that I am being introduced to them now and am reading quite a bit on them as of late. Consider them my flavor of the month. 

[MSU158 2,008]

TBar,

 

Even the part where I say Iowa is my replacement team????  ;)

[MSU158 2,008]

RealAmericanHero,

 

In no way was I knocking you for anything you said.  I was just pointing out how deep tOSU really is.  It is still a long way til March but I think Ryan is finally going to get his Title!

[MSU158 2,008]

silver-medal,

 

Dardanes didn't have to go underneath Logan in Freestyle.  As I have said the Dardanes plural do not do well on bottom, especially when the guy on top is Logan.  Arm bar tilt a whirl is very likely!

[RealAmericanHero 127]

MSU158

 

Thank you for stating that.

 

I returned to what I had previously typed and thought to myself that it may be a bit harsh. No indictment whatsoever.

 

I agree with your statement of it being a long season. In following teams like ASU, Oklahoma State, and Cornell, I think I, and maybe others, forget the grueling nature of the Big Ten conference schedule. Everybody wrestles about the same number of matches, but the Big Ten dual season, coupled with the Big Ten Tournament is quite the grind. 

[LordNelson 552]

Very impressed with BoJo like everyone else, he must be pretty strong to snap and back guys all over the mat like he does.

Dieringer is one strong dude though.  He is the class of 165 and completely shut Sulzer down.  Sulzer normally takes a ton of shots and Dieringer was holding him like it was a joke and moving him at will.

 

Dieringer is very underrated, even for a National Champ. 

As of today it is him and everyone else.

[TBar1977 4,532]

TBar,

 

Even the part where I say Iowa is my replacement team????  ;)

 

 

Not that part. Ha ha!

[VakAttack 4,014]

Snyder is a Junior World Champion. You might want to figure that into the equation somewhere. 

 

How so?  Did he beat any of his current opponents?  It matters, but Bubba Jenkins and Dom Bradley also won Junior World Titles, and won one title and 4 AA appearances between them when Bubba was a 5th year senior, so I'm not just going to be using that as the ultimate decider.

 

Vak,

 

I admit Iowa has become my replacement team.  I will ALWAYS root for MSU wrestlers but I have officially given up!  Yet with that said I think you had your black and gold tinted glasses on when you picked your dual outcomes.

 

125: Gilman is a slight favorite and this is closer to a toss up, but I have no issue with you giving it to Iowa

133: This should be a toss up.  Clark has yet to prove himself up a weight and DiJulius did beat Colon last year.  Clark hasn't done enough yet to say he is better than Colon was last year.

141:  I know Iowa is great at blocking bonus against them but this could be a Pin or TF very easily.

149:  Until Iowa establishes someone here, and even if they do, Stieber is very likely to pick up bonus.

157:  Demas is a clear favorite until proven otherwise

165:  Toss up  At Carver Moore wins, anywhere else I am not so sure

174:  Iowa's only clear favorite with the exception of 285

184:  Toss up at best.  I like Brooks a lot too but he has yet to show anything to put him as a favorite over Courts

197:  Calling this a toss up is where I really think you had your Iowa glasses on.

285:  Telford should handle either Tavanello or Haines

 

Brands is a dual master and I like his chances of finding a win but Ryan does have some decent recent(I like putting those two words together) history against the Hawks.  I like Iowa's chances but the likelihood of tOSU winning 8 matches is a LOT higher than Iowa doing so.

 

 

I like Minnesota's chances even less.

 

125: Could get real ugly for Minnesota

133: How will Dardanes handle the weight cut?  His weakness is bottom and DiJulius is a hammer on top.  Still Dardanes is the favorite

141:  Dardanes' do not do well against Stieber.  This will at the very least be a TF.

149:  Very likely another Stieber major

157:  Ness all the way at the NCAA tournament but who knows in a dual?

165:  Very likely another run away win for tOSU

174:  Storley clear favorite but bonus very unlikely

184:  Not sure what Pfarr has done to warrant this match up being called a tossup?

197:  I really, really am looking forward to this match

285:  I know Kroells destroyed Tavanello early last season but this is 285, still I have no issue calling Minn the favorite here.

 

Although I see Minnesota as clear favorites at more weights than Iowa they will definitely give up more Bonus.  I understand all the doubters but Guys, trust me, tOSU is the team to beat!

 

re:  Iowa v. tOSU

 

125:  Not sure it can be a toss up until Tomasello beats Gilman.  Not saying that can't happen, Tomasello's very good, but who's his best collegiate win?  True Frosh Micic?  Gilman beat Delgado, Peters (repeatedly), Klimara, Darian Cruz, and Tim Lambert.

133:  Disagree on calling this a Toss Up, I don't think JDJ has enough on his feet, and he didn't wrestle at wrestle offs or the MSU Open, so who knows what's going on there?  Clark just got done taking 5th at NCAAs while only losing to NCAA Finalists there.

141:  Stieber will clearly, if healthy, put a beating on Iowa's rep.

149:  Another guy yet to wrestle for Ohio State, but a clear favorite over Iowa's rep.  Grothus did have some nice wins, though, and Hunter isn't Logan, so I don't think bonus is in the cards.

157: tOSU a favorite, as I said.

165:  I won't be surprised if BoJo wins, but Moore is a step up from Massa.

174:  Clear Iowa favorite

184:  Sure Brooks did.  He beat Dudley from Nebraska who beat Courts twice, he beat Abounader from michigan who also beat Courts twice.  Plus, Courts biggest weakness is notoriously his gas tank, which is certainly Brooks' strength.

197:  I've made my opinion clear here.  Snyder is good, but lets have him prove it against someone of note first.  Burak is a guy who's gone R12, AA in his first two years, Snyder is a true frosh, although obviously a talented one.  Going into the heavier weights is always harder for the younger guys.

HWT:  Clearly Telford is the favorite over anyone tOSU has, though Haines is another interesting true frosh.

 

 

Minny-tOSU

125:  tOSU favorite

133:  Minny favored

141:  tOSU favored (but I think Nick is bigger, stronger, and less likely to get bonused than Chris).

149:  tOSU favored.

157:  Not sure how this could be anything but a Minny favorite.3 time AA, two time finalist.

165:  tOSU favorite.

174:  Minny favorite w/ possible bonus (Martin lost by MD to Evans and Brown, regular decision to Kokesh).

184:  Again, feeling on Court and his gas tank are clear here.

197:  Schiller is the returning 3rd place finisher and was #1 for a decent portion of last season, and he just beat the defending NCAA champ.  He's clearly the favorite here.

HWT:  Clear Minny favorite.

 

 

Changes I would make:

 

125 from Iowa to toss up

165 from toss up to Ohio State

184 from Iowa to toss up

197 from toss up to Ohio State

Gosh, all of those changes go against Iowa.  I'm shocked.  

 

  Gilman has beaten Tomasello something like 4 or 5 straight times now with no losses.  Jordan's awesome but calling that anything other than a toss up at this point doesn't make sense.  Nick Moore has beaten Tyler Caldwell, something not many people not named Kyle Dake and David Taylor have done in the last two years.  I already stated my case for Brooks at 184:  he has beaten people who have beaten Courts, and stylistically it's a nightmare for Courts, IMO.  I've addressed 197 a few times already.

[CoachWrestling 432]

Demas' win over Murphy is an important indication he is healthy and real threat to AA this season; and that's supposed to be one of tOSU's weaker weights, yikes!

 

He won a questionable call though, don't agree with the point that gave him the win. 

[headshuck 2,600]

MSU>>>184:  Not sure what Pfarr has done to warrant this match up being called a tossup?

 

 

Pfarr is tough.  He has a win over Dean this summer in freestyle.

Edited November 3, 2014 by headshuck

[LordNelson 552]

Vak:  Your points are all spot on.

 

However, Snyder is the real deal.  He is at least at Burak's level as he completely dismantled Huntley and Wellington.  They aren't Burak for sure, but it was ugly by the end of the match.  Kid has a serious gas tank too.

 

Personally, I think he is top 3 material if not higher.