Danishek v Jordan @ MSU...

[VakAttack 4,041]

Vak:  Your points are all spot on.

 

However, Snyder is the real deal.  He is at least at Burak's level as he completely dismantled Huntley and Wellington.  They aren't Burak for sure, but it was ugly by the end of the match.  Kid has a serious gas tank too.

 

Personally, I think he is top 3 material if not higher.

I think Snyder will be great, and he has the ceiling of being a NCAA champion, whereas I don't think Burak can be that good, btu the question is what level are they on right now, with Burak a Junior (no RS, but a year at OTC) and Snyder is a true frosh.  John Smith and Jordan Burroughs both lost as freshman (and sophs).  I just think the anointing is a little premature.  I won't be shocked if Snyder beats Burak.  He's extremely talented.

[hawktalk3 59]

Changes I would make:

 

125 from Iowa to toss up

165 from toss up to Ohio State

184 from Iowa to toss up

197 from toss up to Ohio State

 

I get people wanting to say 125 is a toss up, but to this point Gilman has owned the seires with Tomasello (even if it is just freestyle. People seem to put a ton of stock in Snyder's FS credentials, so Gilman's FS wins over Tomasello should definitely count, especially in tOSU fans' minds). Gilman has shown a much better resume to this point, owns two wins this year over Tomasello, a slight favorite is still a favorite.

 

Same thing at 165. Moore beat Caldwell last year, and domianted some top 10 guys too. Sure he hasn't shown up at the NCAAs, but he has been money in the dual season, not sure why that would change this year. I don't see how Moore's regular season success puts him as an underdog.

 

I am fine with putting Brooks as a toss up. That seems fair.

 

Again Burak is an All-American, this should probably stay at a toss up. Unitl Snyder gets another big win.

[hawktalk3 59]

Vak:  Your points are all spot on.

 

However, Snyder is the real deal.  He is at least at Burak's level as he completely dismantled Huntley and Wellington.  They aren't Burak for sure, but it was ugly by the end of the match.  Kid has a serious gas tank too.

 

Personally, I think he is top 3 material if not higher.

Snyder looked pretty good, still waiting on a couple more matches so I know how for real he is.

 

I think Burak has some good defense, and he improved a lot from the start to end of the year with his shots. I think this is still a toss-up right now

[TBar1977 4,597]

Gosh, all of those changes go against Iowa.  I'm shocked.  

 

Gilman has beaten Tomasello something like 4 or 5 straight times now with no losses.  Jordan's awesome but calling that anything other than a toss up at this point doesn't make sense.  

 

That's why I called it a toss up. Hello?

Changes I would make:

125 from Iowa to toss up

 

 

 

 

Nick Moore has beaten Tyler Caldwell, something not many people not named Kyle Dake and David Taylor have done in the last two years. 

 

Moore beat Caldwell at Carver Hawkeye, but he also lost 5 matches to ranked wrestlers last year. Plus, Moore basically collapsed at NCAA's. I would rate Moore a very slight favorite at Carver, given the way the home venue works there. At Ohio State or at a neutral site, I'd give BoJo the edge. The match is in C'Bus, so I'm giving BoJo the edge over Moore. 

Edited November 3, 2014 by TBar1977

[jeffr_ideal 216]

Vak wrote: "And Gilman beat Tomasello two straight at the Junior WTT, so...."

 

 

Tomasello owns a freestyle win over Nashon Garrett.  That has to count for something if we are trying to predict folkstyle success on freestyle results.   It must also be acknowledged that Tomasello works out with Logan Stieber and if you watched Tomasello this weekend, you could see Logan's influence on Tomsello, especially from the top position. 

Edited November 3, 2014 by jeffr_ideal

[VakAttack 4,041]

Vak wrote: "And Gilman beat Tomasello two straight at the Junior WTT, so...."

 

 

Tomasello owns a freestyle win over Nashon Garrett.  That has to count for something if we are trying to predict folkstyle success on freestyle results.   It must also be acknowledged that Tomasello works out with Logan Stieber and if you watched Tomasello this weekend, you could see Logan's influence on Tomsello, especially from the top position. 

Sure, it counts for something.  Just not as much as Gilman's repeated head to head wins over Tomasello and Gilman's Folkstyle win over two time NCAA Champion Jesse Delgado.

 

 

I'll make my words bigger for TBar's post since I kind of put one response in the middle there.  Just for differentiation purposes.

Gosh, all of those changes go against Iowa.  I'm shocked.  

 

Gilman has beaten Tomasello something like 4 or 5 straight times now with no losses.  Jordan's awesome but calling that anything other than a toss up at this point doesn't make sense.  

 

That's why I called it a toss up. Hello?

Changes I would make:

125 from Iowa to toss up

 

The second sentence starts w/ "Jordan's awesome...", so clearly I'm talking about BoJo.  Again, Gilman own something like 4 wins over Tomasello with no losses and a win over Jesse Delgado in Folkstyle.  This is not a toss up.  That doesn't mean Tomasello can't win, it's just not a toss up.

 

 

Nick Moore has beaten Tyler Caldwell, something not many people not named Kyle Dake and David Taylor have done in the last two years. 

 

Moore beat Caldwell at Carver Hawkeye, but he also lost 5 matches to ranked wrestlers last year. Plus, Moore basically collapsed at NCAA's. I would rate Moore a very slight favorite at Carver, given the way the home venue works there. At Ohio State or at a neutral site, I'd give BoJo the edge. The match is in C'Bus, so I'm giving BoJo the edge over Moore. 

And BoJo got absolutely housed by 157 lber Ian Miller.  He's good, but Moore has a better pedigree than anyone BoJo has beaten, especially in Folkstyle.

[TBar1977 4,597]

Vak, Moore got majored by Veltre from Bloom at NCAA's. In the wrestlebacks he nearly got majored again, this time by Palacio from Cornell. C'mon. I know he is a pretty good wrestler, but he was 8-5 against ranked wrestlers last year. 

 

You talk about BoJo's loss to Ian Miller, and I grant that Miller schooled him in that freestyle match. But let's consider the rest of that event too. Bo Jo had 5 Tech Falls at University Nationals, and would have won 3rd place too as he was beating Nestor Taffur decisively before the ref gave Taffur about the quickest pin in history.  

 

Look, I'm not even a BoJo guy. Nor am I an Ohio State fan. Nor is MSU an Ohio State fan. This should be sending alarm bells ringing in your head about what people think about this match up. Jordan is for real. 

[VakAttack 4,041]

Vak, Moore got majored by Veltre from Bloom at NCAA's. In the wrestlebacks he nearly got majored again, this time by Palacio from Cornell. C'mon. I know he is a pretty good wrestler, but he was 8-5 against ranked wrestlers last year. 

 

You talk about BoJo's loss to Ian Miller, and I grant that Miller schooled him in that freestyle match. But let's consider the rest of that event too. Bo Jo had 5 Tech Falls at University Nationals, and would have won 3rd place too as he was beating Nestor Taffur decisively before the ref gave Taffur about the quickest pin in history.  

 

Look, I'm not even a BoJo guy. Nor am I an Ohio State fan. Nor is MSU an Ohio State fan. This should be sending alarm bells ringing in your head about what people think about this match up. Jordan is for real. 

 

Who said he's not for real?  Again, I picked him in the SECOND ROUND of my Fantasy Draft.  My point is that given what Moore showed for the majority of last year, and what little we have from BoJo, it's just ridiculous to call BoJo a favorite at this point.  JMO.  Yes, Moore had a bad tournament, but the majority ofh is year was spent beating on people not named David Taylor.

[hawktalk3 59]

Gosh, all of those changes go against Iowa.  I'm shocked.  

 

Gilman has beaten Tomasello something like 4 or 5 straight times now with no losses.  Jordan's awesome but calling that anything other than a toss up at this point doesn't make sense.  

 

That's why I called it a toss up. Hello?

Changes I would make:

125 from Iowa to toss up

 

 

 

 

Nick Moore has beaten Tyler Caldwell, something not many people not named Kyle Dake and David Taylor have done in the last two years. 

 

Moore beat Caldwell at Carver Hawkeye, but he also lost 5 matches to ranked wrestlers last year. Plus, Moore basically collapsed at NCAA's. I would rate Moore a very slight favorite at Carver, given the way the home venue works there. At Ohio State or at a neutral site, I'd give BoJo the edge. The match is in C'Bus, so I'm giving BoJo the edge over Moore. 

Of course they are going to go in favor of Iowa. The Iowa guys are all wrestlers with at least half season of starting expierence compared to guys who wrestled a RS and the MSU Open.

 

Again, Gilman has handled Tomasello, and he beat Tomasello on takedowns, not exposure points. We saw last year he can ride out the best in Jesse Delgado so we know his top game is strong. Gilman could take Tomasello down (like he's done on several occasions THIS YEAR) and ride him out. The fact that he holds the takedown edge (even if it is in Free) shows you he is the favorite.

 

I wasn't even saying 165 was in Moore's favor, I argued you moving it from a toss up to tOSU's favor. That is where I disagree. How about how Moore beat Massa, Harger, and Yates, all top ten guys? You are quick to point out his five losses, two of them came to David Taylor. It's not like those are bad losses. In reality he had three (I mean Dake and Jenkins are the only guys who could beat Taylor, why even really count them as losses for anyone when comparing two wrestlers?) To say Bo Jo is a favorite, when Moore has shown he can handle beating AAs (like Caldwell and Harger) is too far out there for me. If that is a Hawkeye slant, you have been drinking too much blue koolaid that you still can't shake off your anti-Hawk bias. I think it's fair to call it a tossup.

 

All I said is that 197 is a toss up FOR NOW. Meaning in three weeks time I could easily see how Snyder is the favorite, but we are talking right now where Snyder's resume is a win over a guy who went 1-2 at NCAA, and somehow he is automatically better than an AA?

[TBar1977 4,597]

OK guys. We can agree to disagree. Its all good. I'll be happy to be reminded if I turn out to be all wrong. Won't be the first or last time. 

Edited November 3, 2014 by TBar1977

[NYWRESTLER94 221]

some of you are selling Tomasello's win in the finals over Micic short yes Micic is a true freshman but he's already proven he'll be a good college wrestler when he beat Youtsey in the semis who I believe was either a round of 16 or round of 12 for Michigan last year 

[LordNelson 553]

some of you are selling Tomasello's win in the finals over Micic short yes Micic is a true freshman but he's already proven he'll be a good college wrestler when he beat Youtsey in the semis who I believe was either a round of 16 or round of 12 for Michigan last year 

Not one poster indicated he wouldn't be a good college wrestler.

[silver-medal 670]

The only question about Tomasello is how he'll stack up against Waters, Dance, Gilman, Garrett and Delgado.  Those are my top five at the weight.

[NYWRESTLER94 221]

Not one poster indicated he wouldn't be a good college wrestler.

No but it seems to be implied that because he is a true freshman he isn't at that level already which I disagree with

[LordNelson 553]

The only question about Tomasello is how he'll stack up against Waters, Dance, Gilman, Garrett and Delgado.  Those are my top five at the weight.

This.

[madcat11 436]

I think he'll do just fine with Dance.  We'll see in a few weeks.

[VakAttack 4,041]

Youtsey went 1-2 at the NCAA tournament last year.

[hawktalk3 59]

Youtsey went 1-2 at the NCAA tournament last year.

I'm with you. A good win, but hardly enough to validate that a true freshman has "arrived"

 

For instance, Intermat didn't even rank Youtsey and Pyles had him #19 at Flo

Edited November 4, 2014 by hawktalk3

[LordNelson 553]

The kid is a legit AA contender in a deep weight.

He is not in the conversation for National Champ at this point.

How much more simple can we make it??

How is this an insult or assault on him either??

Edited November 4, 2014 by LordNelson

[JBluegill133 289]

Vak,

 

I admit Iowa has become my replacement team.  I will ALWAYS root for MSU wrestlers but I have officially given up!  Yet with that said I think you had your black and gold tinted glasses on when you picked your dual outcomes.

 

125: Gilman is a slight favorite and this is closer to a toss up, but I have no issue with you giving it to Iowa

133: This should be a toss up.  Clark has yet to prove himself up a weight and DiJulius did beat Colon last year.  Clark hasn't done enough yet to say he is better than Colon was last year.

141:  I know Iowa is great at blocking bonus against them but this could be a Pin or TF very easily.

149:  Until Iowa establishes someone here, and even if they do, Stieber is very likely to pick up bonus.

157:  Demas is a clear favorite until proven otherwise

165:  Toss up  At Carver Moore wins, anywhere else I am not so sure

174:  Iowa's only clear favorite with the exception of 285

184:  Toss up at best.  I like Brooks a lot too but he has yet to show anything to put him as a favorite over Courts

197:  Calling this a toss up is where I really think you had your Iowa glasses on.

285:  Telford should handle either Tavanello or Haines

 

Brands is a dual master and I like his chances of finding a win but Ryan does have some decent recent(I like putting those two words together) history against the Hawks.  I like Iowa's chances but the likelihood of tOSU winning 8 matches is a LOT higher than Iowa doing so.

 

 

I like Minnesota's chances even less.

 

125: Could get real ugly for Minnesota

133: How will Dardanes handle the weight cut?  His weakness is bottom and DiJulius is a hammer on top.  Still Dardanes is the favorite

141:  Dardanes' do not do well against Stieber.  This will at the very least be a TF.

149:  Very likely another Stieber major

157:  Ness all the way at the NCAA tournament but who knows in a dual?

165:  Very likely another run away win for tOSU

174:  Storley clear favorite but bonus very unlikely

184:  Not sure what Pfarr has done to warrant this match up being called a tossup?

197:  I really, really am looking forward to this match

285:  I know Kroells destroyed Tavanello early last season but this is 285, still I have no issue calling Minn the favorite here.

 

Although I see Minnesota as clear favorites at more weights than Iowa they will definitely give up more Bonus.  I understand all the doubters but Guys, trust me, tOSU is the team to beat!

 

What were the previous matches between Steiber and Dardanes that you make you predict at minimum a TF?  

[MSU158 2,037]

His brother Chris, whom I believe is better than Nick, lost 9-0 and 11-0 to Logan in FOLKSTYLE last year.  I am more than willing to go on a limb (these are predictions remember) that Nick will do worse against Logan than his brother did.  Please Note:  I am well aware of the close match they had in FREESTYLE.  However, Freestyle isn't Folkstyle.  Mat wrestling is The Dardanes bros weakness and Stieber is probably the best in the top position in College Wrestling.  Feel free to call me out if the results don't match up when they wrestly but I feel so confident in a major that I stepped it up a notch and called the TF.

[jeffr_ideal 216]

I'm with you. A good win, but hardly enough to validate that a true freshman has "arrived"

 

For instance, Intermat didn't even rank Youtsey and Pyles had him #19 at Flo

Of course you are with him. But... Tomasello is a redshirt frosh. Tomasello has already arrived. He has solid wins and very close matches with your boy in freestyle. Tomasello is going to be top 4 this year. His room (training partners) is top shelf and he is already making huge Improvments in top position. Just wait and see hawk folks

[LordNelson 553]

Of course you are with him. But... Tomasello is a redshirt frosh. Tomasello has already arrived. He has solid wins and very close matches with your boy in freestyle. Tomasello is going to be top 4 this year. His room (training partners) is top shelf and he is already making huge Improvments in top position. Just wait and see hawk folks

Top 4 four wouldn't surprise me. 

But, that would pretty good considering the 5 mentioned already that we know can get it done.

[wrestlingphish 1,032]

Of course you are with him. But... Tomasello is a redshirt frosh. Tomasello has already arrived. He has solid wins and very close matches with your boy in freestyle. Tomasello is going to be top 4 this year. His room (training partners) is top shelf and he is already making huge Improvments in top position. Just wait and see hawk folks

 

Close matches? More like close match. A quick look at their matches and the scores go 6-1, 7-2, 8-4, 3-2 for a combined score of 24-9. And I will take Tom and Terry Brands, Matt McDonough, Tony Ramos, and Cory Clark as workout partners over Johnny Dijulius and Reece Humphrey.

[jeffr_ideal 216]

Close matches? More like close match. A quick look at their matches and the scores go 6-1, 7-2, 8-4, 3-2 for a combined score of 24-9. And I will take Tom and Terry Brands, Matt McDonough, Tony Ramos, and Cory Clark as workout partners over Johnny Dijulius and Reece Humphrey.

You forgot Logan Stieber, Lou Roselli and Angel Escobedo.