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TBar1977

Thomas Gilman claims he is better than Matt McDonough (link)

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Ramos/McDonough-  7X Big 10 Finalist / 3X Big 10 Champ

                                   5X NCAA Finalist / 3X NCAA Champ

 

Gilman/Clark-  2X Big 10 Finalist / 1X Big 10 Champ

                        3X NCAA Finalist / 0 X NCAA Champ

 

 

This one is already over.  Gilman loses... even when Clark did all the heavy lifting. 

Edited by LemonPie

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Just the fact that they could end up pretty close is a hell of an accomplishment. They could beat them in the amount of AA's category. They could go 7 for 7 in AA opportunities.  Ramos and McD were 6 for 8.

 

If Gilman were to finish 4,2,1 and Clark 5,2,2,1 you could make an argument that they did better than R12,3,2,1 and 1,2,1,R12.

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It is ironic that I thought if this thread a few times of late. I was waiting until after NCAA's to bring it back up to see how things turned out.

 

I do believe that Lee and Teasdale have a shot at bringing that lightweight crown back to Iowa. Time will tell. 

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It is ironic that I thought if this thread a few times of late. I was waiting until after NCAA's to bring it back up to see how things turned out.

 

I do believe that Lee and Teasdale have a shot at bringing that lightweight crown back to Iowa. Time will tell. 

Are you trying to say it left?  If so, to whom has it went?

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How is not qualifying better than making a round of 12?

He didn't qualify because he was at the same weight as the counterpart to his combo.  Considering he had a win over the NCAA Champ that year, I think he was pretty good.  Still, I wasn't saying DNP was better than R12.   I was saying that 7 AA's in 7 tries could be argued as better than 6 for 8.

 

Also, McDonough and Ramos were only a combo for 7 years as well, so the math would fit better that way as well.

Edited by MSU158

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Are you trying to say it left?  If so, to whom has it went?

 

 

Flo named Cornell 125 U, and they named Oklahoma State 133 U, so the Lightweight U title resides half in Ithaca and half in Stillwater. This is where Gilman's proclamation could have helped had he simply kept his word and won something, but he kept letting these PA guys beat him at NCAA's.  

Edited by TBar1977

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He didn't qualify because he was at the same weight as the counterpart to his combo.  Considering he had a win over the NCAA Champ that year, I think he was pretty good.  Still, I wasn't saying DNP was better than R12.   I was saying that 7 AA's in 7 tries could be argued as better than 6 for 8.

Tyler Caldwell > Burroughs

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Flo named Cornell 125 U, and they named Oklahoma State 133 U, so the Lightweight U title resides half in Ithaca and half in Stillwater. This is where Gilman's proclamation could have helped had he simply kept his word. 

I am aware of that and how close Iowa was to both.  If you took Iowa at BOTH they would have the lead and that wasn't the timeframe from McD and Ramos until now like this topic inferred.  Even so, if Gilman and Clark finish close to their current ranking they would surpass both before Lee or Teasdale even step foot on the mat.

 

Since McDonough started Iowa has gone (at 125)1st,2nd,1st,R12,5th,4th and 2nd at 125 with the #1 currently ranked wrestler.  At 133: 2nd,R12,3rd,2nd,1st,2nd and 2nd and they also have the #1 currently ranked wrestler.  That is 3 championships and 9 Finals appearances in 14 tries.  No school comes close to that!

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Are you trying to say it left? If so, to whom has it went?

Iowa hasn't seen a national champ at 125 since 2012 and had the 1 at 133 in 2014 but before that they went 13 years w/o a national champ at that weight. Productive for lightweights yes but to hold the crown you should be having a national champ in those weights on a consistent basis

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Tyler Caldwell > Burroughs

Very low quality trolling.  I said 7 for 7 could be argued as better than 6 for 8 and a lot of that argument would hinge on how high they finish this year.  I wouldn't be arguing that 5,2,3,2 is better than 1-2, 3rd,1st,1st finishing out a career in dominating fashion.  I would be arguing 4,2,1,5,2,2,1 vs 1,2,1,R12,R12,3,2,1.

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I am aware of that and how close Iowa was to both.  If you took Iowa at BOTH they would have the lead and that wasn't the timeframe from McD and Ramos until now like this topic inferred.  Even so, if Gilman and Clark finish close to their current ranking they would surpass both before Lee or Teasdale even step foot on the mat.

 

Since McDonough started Iowa has gone (at 125)1st,2nd,1st,R12,5th,4th and 2nd at 125 with the #1 currently ranked wrestler.  At 133: 2nd,R12,3rd,2nd,1st,2nd and 2nd and they also have the #1 currently ranked wrestler.  That is 3 championships and 9 Finals appearances in 14 tries.  No school comes close to that!

 

 

That seems pretty wordy and lacking for questioning Flo's analysis which places an emphasis on championship caliber wrestling. Gilman and Clark lack championships on his resume, so no Lightweight U title for Iowa. McDonough and Ramos, while obviously proving better than Gilman and Clark at winning championships, they were a while ago.

 

I have to go with Flo on this one. 

Edited by TBar1977

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Iowa hasn't seen a national champ at 125 since 2012 and had the 1 at 133 in 2014 but before that they went 13 years w/o a national champ at that weight. Productive for lightweights yes but to hold the crown you should be having a national champ in those weights on a consistent basis

Interesting criteria. I first want to give you giant props for picking the year McDonough was injured to start your time frame.

 

So, you can have years where you don't even place at a weight, but if you have a championship you are better than the team that goes R12, 5th, 4th, 2nd or 2nd,1st,2nd,2nd?????

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That seems pretty wordy and lacking for questioning Flo's analysis which places an emphasis on championship caliber wrestling. Gilman and Clark lack championships on his resume, so no Lightweight U title for Iowa. McDonough, while obviously proving better than Gilman at winning championships, he was a while ago.

 

I have to go with Flo on this one. 

 

Of course Flo also had a very specific timeframe that just ended up keeping Iowa off the crown.  If you went back to when the weight class actually started, which was something like 2-3 years before the Flo sample size, Iowa wins Flo's unofficial designation.

Edited by VakAttack

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That seems pretty wordy and lacking for questioning Flo's analysis which places an emphasis on championship caliber wrestling. Gilman and Clark lack championships on his resume, so no Lightweight U title for Iowa. McDonough and Ramos, while obviously proving better than Gilman and Clark at winning championships, they were a while ago.

 

I have to go with Flo on this one. 

You actually flip flopped your criteria by including both Lee and Teasedale as the guys to bring them back into Lightweight U.  That assumes 2 guys as a tandem at 125 and 133.  Even if you use FLO's exact data when you combine the results at 125(187pts) and 133(142pts) Iowa(329 total) blows both top teams away and Minnesota is the only team close with 156+147=303.  Are you now trying to say that ONLY 125 is Lightweight?

Edited by MSU158

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Interesting criteria. I first want to give you giant props for picking the year McDonough was injured to start your time frame.

 

So, you can have years where you don't even place at a weight, but if you have a championship you are better than the team that goes R12, 5th, 4th, 2nd or 2nd,1st,2nd,2nd?????

even if he was healthy are you so sure he would've won it in 2013? Delgado beat him when he was healthy a year prior and I believe he jumped levels the following year when he won it. You're going by placement and points I'm counting what schools had a national champ on a consistent basis in the modern day

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Lightweight U is still a thing? cool.

 

FWIW I did the numbers with Nomad and Iowa is Lightweight U if you combine either 125 & 133, or 125 133 & 141.

 

it was sheer chance that Iowa didn't come out on top when we broke things down by individual weights. and if you think that was done on purpose then you have to assume we ran numbers multiple different ways and only picked the methodology that had Iowa not coming out on top and I am WAY to lazy for that to be the case. I only double checked what would happen if you combined the lower weights after everyone flipped out about it.

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even if he was healthy are you so sure he would've won it in 2013? Delgado beat him when he was healthy a year prior and I believe he jumped levels the following year when he won it. You're going by placement and points I'm counting what schools had a national champ on a consistent basis in the modern day

Modern day is the last 4 years?  Also, you didn't answer my whole question.  Is winning a championship or 2 with little to no other placings in a 5 year period better than 4 or 5 top 4 finishes in that same time span?  When defining a team as the team for lightweights, wouldn't consistency be better than flash in the pan?

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