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Okie State over SDSU

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Collica lost 8-2. Interesting given Marstellar's results today. I don't think it is a given or set in stone that 157 is settled at Okie State.

 

Kindig winning by a close 6-5 and Shafer losing are mildly surprising.

Edited by TBar1977

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Collica lost 8-2. Interesting given Marstellar's results today. I don't think it is a given or set in stone that 157 is settled at Okie State.

 

Kindig winning by a close 6-5 and Shafer losing are mildly surprising.

My understanding is that Kindig should've lost. It sounds like Holler had a takedown at the end. People that were there said if they would've had  matside review he would've won.

Nice work Jackrabbits! Great team effort.

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Collica lost 8-2. Interesting given Marstellar's results today. I don't think it is a given or set in stone that 157 is settled at Okie State.

 

Kindig winning by a close 6-5 and Shafer losing are mildly surprising.

 

I feel like they are unlikely to burn a year of elligibility for Collica for no reason.  Him starting at the duals indicates a pretty strong chance that marstellar redshirts

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Davey Dolan is a stud, wrestling back to back matches like that:

 

Match-by-Match Results - OSU 25, SDSU 9 

125: Austin Miller (OSU) over Isaac Andrade (SDSU) - Maj., 14-4

133: Brance Simms (SDSU) over Davey Dolan (OSU) - Dec., 6-1

141: Davey Dolan (OSU) over Luke Zilverberg (SDSU) - Dec., 8-5

149: #3 Josh Kindig (OSU) over Colin Holler (SDSU) - Dec., 6-5

157: #18 Cody Pack (SDSU) over Anthony Collica - Dec., 8-2

165: #1 Alex Dieringer (OSU) over Kyle Leet (SDSU) - Tech., 17-1

174: Jordan Rogers (OSU) over David Kocer (SDSU) - Dec., 6-5

184: #20 Nolan Boyd (OSU) over Brady Ayers (SDSU) - Tech., 18-3

197: Nate Rotert (SDSU) over #15 Austin Schafer (OSU) - Dec., 8-6

285: #5 Austin Mardsen (OSU) over  J.J. Everard (SDSU) - Dec., 8-4

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Davey Dolan is a stud, wrestling back to back matches like that:

 

Match-by-Match Results - OSU 25, SDSU 9 

125: Austin Miller (OSU) over Isaac Andrade (SDSU) - Maj., 14-4

133: Brance Simms (SDSU) over Davey Dolan (OSU) - Dec., 6-1

141: Davey Dolan (OSU) over Luke Zilverberg (SDSU) - Dec., 8-5

149: #3 Josh Kindig (OSU) over Colin Holler (SDSU) - Dec., 6-5

157: #18 Cody Pack (SDSU) over Anthony Collica - Dec., 8-2

165: #1 Alex Dieringer (OSU) over Kyle Leet (SDSU) - Tech., 17-1

174: Jordan Rogers (OSU) over David Kocer (SDSU) - Dec., 6-5

184: #20 Nolan Boyd (OSU) over Brady Ayers (SDSU) - Tech., 18-3

197: Nate Rotert (SDSU) over #15 Austin Schafer (OSU) - Dec., 8-6

285: #5 Austin Mardsen (OSU) over  J.J. Everard (SDSU) - Dec., 8-4

@ 133 for OSU was b. crutchmer

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and he can't redshirt next year because ... ???

 

Because this year Collica no longer has the option of redshirting now that he's wrestled in an official dual.  If Chance was going to start 157 this year they would have kept Collica in redshirt and likely put him in at 149 next year

 

Next year they'll probably start chance at 157 (if he can make it) either redshirt collica or start him at 149, and then then in 2016 Dieringer will graduate and they'll have more flexibility to move guys up in weight.

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Because this year Collica no longer has the option of redshirting now that he's wrestled in an official dual.  If Chance was going to start 157 this year they would have kept Collica in redshirt and likely put him in at 149 next year

 

Next year they'll probably start chance at 157 (if he can make it) either redshirt collica or start him at 149, and then then in 2016 Dieringer will graduate and they'll have more flexibility to move guys up in weight.

It appears you've answered your own question/concern.  If they plan (or even want the option) to redshirt Collica next year then they aren't burning a redshirt by wrestling him this year.  

 

165 looks occupied next year (unless injury, in which case Marsteller then RS the next) so likewise if both Collica & Marsteller are competitive this year doesn't hurt to let the best guy wrestle this year &/or use both.  Marsteller might not be able to make the weight next year, would then have an RS to use, someone might get injured/dinged up off season etc. still have RS available.  

 

Its not like the old days where all the guys need a year to learn defense etc. some are ready right out of HS, if they fit in the line up save the RS for when needed.  Marsden & Megaludis recent examples.  Doesn't yet appear any have "burnt" their redshirt.

Edited by ionel

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It appears you've answered your own question/concern.  If they plan (or even want the option) to redshirt Collica next year then they aren't burning a redshirt by wrestling him this year.  

 

165 looks occupied next year (unless injury, in which case Marsteller then RS the next) so likewise if both Collica & Marsteller are competitive this year doesn't hurt to let the best guy wrestle this year &/or use both.  Marsteller might not be able to make the weight next year, would then have an RS to use, someone might get injured/dinged up off season etc. still have RS available.  

 

Its not like the old days where all the guys need a year to learn defense etc. some are ready right out of HS, if they fit in the line up save the RS for when needed.  Marsden & Megaludis recent examples.  Doesn't yet appear any have "burnt" their redshirt.

I think you are misunderstanding my point. Becaude collica now CANT redshirt this year, that means Chance WILL. If they start chance at 57 then one of the two of them will waste a year of elligibility and not see the post season. John smith is very unlikely to do this when both wrestlers have redshirts available

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I think you are misunderstanding my point. Becaude collica now CANT redshirt this year, that means Chance WILL. If they start chance at 57 then one of the two of them will waste a year of elligibility and not see the post season. John smith is very unlikely to do this when both wrestlers have redshirts available

I think you are missing my point, no it doesn't have to mean that.

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I think you are missing my point, no it doesn't have to mean that.

You're wrong, I don't know what else to say.  Unless Kindig drops and they figure out a way to get everyone in the lineup, or someone gets hurt, chance is going to RS.  They aren't going to burn a year of elligbility off one of their big recruits (collica) just so he can start in a dual against SDSU.  The fact that you think they would is flabbergasting

 

This has nothing to do with guys being ready or not being ready and everything to do with maximizing the time that your star wrestlers are able to spend in your lineup. If PSU had an AA caliber 125 in 2011 that didnt have a redshirt availible I can guarentee you that Nico would have taken a redshirt, even if he was the best guy in the room.  Thats just how this sport works

 

There is a reason PSU is redshirting Nico/Zain this year.  They want to make a big push next year when all of their super studs come out of redshirt.  Linep strategy is a big part of having a sucesfull team

Edited by LoStNuMbEr

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Oooh, semantics, may I join?

 

I think the confusion here began with use of the phrase 'burning a redshirt,' which is a pretty common confusion point in wrestling vernacular. Redshirts don't really get burned, or used up, until the season ends and the wrestler has NOT wrestled. So the phrase as commonly used doesn't really work. For the meaning it usually attempts to convey, it would probably be better to switch it to 'burning an eligibility year,' which is, effectively, what Smith just did with Collica. Collica could still pull a TRFR Logan Stieber and compete for a few matches before MFF'ing and subsequently be granted back that redshirt year, but effectively, by competing attached in the SDSU dual, he has begun to 'burn his eligibility year.'

 

It looks to me, as an outside observer butting into the conversation, that ionel baited Lost with the semantic trick 'and he can't redshirt next year because?....' and Lost got a little duped in taking that bait.

 

However, Lost's point is not lost despite the semantic sidetracking and remains true: that this burning of Collica's 2015 tourney season eligibility (again, presuming the MFF NCAA return/granting of the RS, ala Stieber, does NOT happen) does appear to also convey Smith's intent to redshirt Marstellar. The logic of this is sound: if the intent was for Marstellar to compete at 157 THIS YEAR and to preserve his redshirt for some future season, then why also burn Collica's 2015 eligibility? Put more simply, with two wrestlers for one weight--both with future redshirts available, it wouldn't make strategic sense to burn both wrestler's 2015 eligibility. As such, it remains sound to presume that Marstellar will use his redshirt in the 2015 season, now that Collica cannot (again, accepting the MFF asterisk).

 

ionel's point, despite its reliance on literal semantics, is also true: the option to compete both wrestlers this year, preserving both wrestlers' redshirts for some future year, remains viable according to redshirting rules. However strategically unsound its practice may seem.

 

In summary, this master debater (points two thumbs at chest, followed by wanking motion) declares two winners and raises both hands. Well competed, gents!

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Oooh, semantics, may I join?

 

I think the confusion here began with use of the phrase 'burning a redshirt,' which is a pretty common confusion point in wrestling vernacular. Redshirts don't really get burned, or used up, until the season ends and the wrestler has NOT wrestled. So the phrase as commonly used doesn't really work. For the meaning it usually attempts to convey, it would probably be better to switch it to 'burning an eligibility year,' which is, effectively, what Smith just did with Collica. Collica could still pull a TRFR Logan Stieber and compete for a few matches before MFF'ing and subsequently be granted back that redshirt year, but effectively, by competing attached in the SDSU dual, he has begun to 'burn his eligibility year.'

 

It looks to me, as an outside observer butting into the conversation, that ionel baited Lost with the semantic trick 'and he can't redshirt next year because?....' and Lost got a little duped in taking that bait.

 

However, Lost's point is not lost despite the semantic sidetracking and remains true: that this burning of Collica's 2015 tourney season eligibility (again, presuming the MFF NCAA return/granting of the RS, ala Stieber, does NOT happen) does appear to also convey Smith's intent to redshirt Marstellar. The logic of this is sound: if the intent was for Marstellar to compete at 157 THIS YEAR and to preserve his redshirt for some future season, then why also burn Collica's 2015 eligibility? Put more simply, with two wrestlers for one weight--both with future redshirts available, it wouldn't make strategic sense to burn both wrestler's 2015 eligibility. As such, it remains sound to presume that Marstellar will use his redshirt in the 2015 season, now that Collica cannot (again, accepting the MFF asterisk).

 

ionel's point, despite its reliance on literal semantics, is also true: the option to compete both wrestlers this year, preserving both wrestlers' redshirts for some future year, remains viable according to redshirting rules. However strategically unsound its practice may seem.

 

In summary, this master debater (points two thumbs at chest, followed by wanking motion) declares two winners and raises both hands. Well competed, gents!

 

.. ahh, I'm lost ... ohh no I'm not, I'm ionel

 

Well done jtothep!

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Smith will generally wrestle the best wrestler at the time and will only use a redshirt if he thinks the guy wrestling is better than the guy in redshirt.  Thinking through all of the guys that were not wrestling (redshirting) at the beginning of the year that wrestled later in the year.

Chris Pendleton wrestled the big 12 tournament his freshman year only

Coleman Scott  (semester break)

Nathan Morgan  (semester break)

Clayton Foster   (semester break)

Austin Marsden  burned his redshirt at the final weekend of the National Duals.

I think Eddie Klimara also started wrestling mid season his true freshman year.

 

Oklahoma State is very packed through the middle weights for the next few years and John Smith thinks he can always recruit more if the wrestler is not getting it done.  I am sure the wrestler in redshirt has a choice as well if he is winning in the room or beating mutual opponents.

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Smith will generally wrestle the best wrestler at the time and will only use a redshirt if he thinks the guy wrestling is better than the guy in redshirt.  

so perhaps Martseller knew this and lost his challenge matches on purpose to ensure his ability to RS this year? i would applaud his craftiness if that was the case. 

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Smith will generally wrestle the best wrestler at the time and will only use a redshirt if he thinks the guy wrestling is better than the guy in redshirt.  Thinking through all of the guys that were not wrestling (redshirting) at the beginning of the year that wrestled later in the year.

Chris Pendleton wrestled the big 12 tournament his freshman year only

Coleman Scott  (semester break)

Nathan Morgan  (semester break)

Clayton Foster   (semester break)

Austin Marsden  burned his redshirt at the final weekend of the National Duals.

I think Eddie Klimara also started wrestling mid season his true freshman year.

 

Oklahoma State is very packed through the middle weights for the next few years and John Smith thinks he can always recruit more if the wrestler is not getting it done.  I am sure the wrestler in redshirt has a choice as well if he is winning in the room or beating mutual opponents.

 

Marsden didn't "burned his redshirt" he redshirted the next year (So.), he wasn't going to wrestling Fr or So year, so only had 3 years of eligibility to wrestle (unless of course he could suck down to 197 or 184), hence why perhaps after only the first dual of the season things might not be exactly what many currently believe they are, and to further support your points - JT.

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