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JasonBryant

For those who have seen Foxcatcher, I'm looking for your comments

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I saw Foxcatcher on Saturday here in Minnesota and will be discussing some things about the film in an upcoming episode of the Short Time Wrestling Podcast. I want to include some feedback from people who have seen the film and put it into the show. You can leave up to a five-minute audio message (no extra software or hardware required, just your computer's mic) at www.mattalkonline.com/contact. Some of the responses may make it into the episode. 

Edited by JasonBryant

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At this point, probably until I get enough submissions to get a a cross section of comments out of it. With the amount of people who have commented on various boards about whether or not they liked it, only ONE fan has offered their on-the-record opinion about the movie, and that was via Facebook.

 

The idea is I'm going to discuss the film and talk about the points the fans/viewers bring up on Short Time. 

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I would love to see it.  Been waiting months for the release.  But it's not showing down here in the Ft Lauderdale/Miami area anywhere. 

 

I can't seem to find out whether it plans to be released down here at all.  The most I can find out is that it is a rolling release where it will be released at various locations through Jan 2015.

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 Saw it on Nov 15, and as I mentioned in an earlier post, the characters are incredibly well represented, Ruffalo in particular. His mannerisms, technique, and even his voice were spot on. I met Dave when he was just 17 at the AAU national team camp. He was under the tutelage Gene Davis; I remember him spladdling Mark Churella, and then Mark storming out of the gym. I went on several trips with Mark Schultz as well, but Mark was more reserved so I wasn't as close to him, and I always avoided Dupont because he was arrogant and creepy. Both Mark and Dupont were splendidly portrayed in the movie. Too bad the missing years in the movie occur; it is some cause for head scratching; it led to a too abrupt ending imo.

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I saw Foxcatcher and give it a 7.5 out of 10.  The director's previous works "Moneyball" and "Capote" offered more entertaining story lines.  Dupont was a strange dude.  This movie will wet the palette for the forthcoming documentary about the life and times of Dave and Mark Schultz that is currently being pitched and sold to documentary bidders like ESPN, HBO, and CNN.  Like the movie "Miracle" when compared with the HBO documentary "Do you believe in Miracles" the documentary offered up much more than what the mainstream movie was able to deliver to a mainstream audience.

 

I've been a Dave Schultz fan and followed his career and first seen him compete live in Toledo, OH at the World Cup event in 1978 (I was really young : ))

 

Foxcatcher fast forwards to Dave's death skipping the time period between 1988 and the murder in 1996.  I thought it was interesting that the movie chose Wexler college as the location where Dave and Mark trained prior to relocating to Foxcatcher.  The reality is that they were training at Wisconsin Univ.  I've not been able to find any explanation why this was done.

 

The performances were incredibly good.  Ruffalo showcased his talents very well in nailing Dave's mannerisms and Channing Tatum's training sequences playing Mark with the wrestling dummy were well done.

 

The movie illustrates well the money problems with the $20 speaking engagement to a high school, and the Rahm & Noodle diet prior to the generous Dupont offer that proved to be enticing enough to take the deal.  The details of the camps and training were interesting and revealing.  It's nice to here Gable's reaction to the movie when he stated that he does not expect to see wrestling in a place where dollars alone will be enough of a carrot to cause athletes to feel compelled to have to go through what Mark went through.  Wrestling today is in a better place (financially) than where it was in the 80s, despite their successes.

 

The ending was particularly brutal and the rivalry and dynamics between older brother and younger was a strong part of the story.

 

I'd recommend the movie.  As a wrestling fan I would have like to have seen more wrestling details of their lives and less of the Dupont BS but the fact that the movie has sold well indicates that the producers and Director know what they're doing.

 

The Schultz documentary has pretty much been completed and is expected to air on one of the bidding networks sometime in the first Quarter of 2015, just in time for NCAAs.  I'm looking forward to the documentary, perhaps more now since I've seen the movie.

Edited by skikayaker

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Good question Dutch.  Unfortunately, I think there would be little impact for recruiting wrestling with one exception.  It exposes new faces to the sport of wrestling with the potential to allow viewers to question John Dupont's mother's belief that it's a "low" sport, showcase the wrestler as victim drawing a sympathy card, and wanting to smack back at Dupont for smacking the face and calling Mark an "ungrateful ape", and murdering the great Dave Schultz.

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Finally made time to see the movie.  I've been a wrestling fan long before Dupont came into prominence in the 80s, and am pretty familiar with the whole saga.

 

First of all, the film was very well made.  Tatum, Ruffalo, Carrell, and everyone else did a superb job of portraying their characters.  While they left out a lot in the plot, I understand that - there's just no way they could have crammed all the details of Dupont's looniness, Dave's attempts to help him, and his increasingly violent confrontations over 10 years into the script without distracting from the central message: namely that Dupont used his money and his madness to control and display everything and everyone with whom he interacted, from his stuffed birds in his collection, to the athletes on his farm.  

 

This control, which gradually sucked the life out of everyone around him, was reinforced by the overcast mood of the film from the beginning; even the scenes of Mark winning at the '87 worlds were dark and gloomy.  At this point, I was already feeling a little sick to my stomach, and by the time they showed the Seoul Olympics with Dupont forcing himself into Mark's corner, I really just wanted to walk out of the theater, not because I didn't think the film was good - it was really just TOO good.

The final scene was probably a little underwhelming at that point for me, but the theater audience made a very audible gasp when the gun was pulled out.  I think that as someone who knows the story well, I didn't appreciate the impact it had on non-wrestling fans, and that even after experiencing John Dupont for over two hours, they really were not expecting that.  Again, perhaps just too good.

 

So bottom line - great movie, everyone here knows how it ends, by all means check it out, but be forewarned that a lot of it is slow  torture!  That's my $0.02.

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I saw it, and I was actually surprised the theater was pretty full, it was a late showing 11PM. I didn't see many cauliflower ears in the audience though.

 

The movie was great.  I wasn't really around for the DuPont madness, when he murdered Dave was right after I had began with wrestling, so I didn't really understand the impact of it at the time. Ironically I remember exactly where I was when I first heard about it, standing in my mom's living room. My mom mentioned what was going on to me. I really like how they captured the mood, somebody said it was mostly gloomy and you're right it seemed that way, from everything I've heard or read, Mark's time at Foxcatcher was not really that great, but there wasn't much of an alternative. Knowing the real Mark Schultz I thought Tatum did a pretty good job as him.  He really captured Mark's essence, and non verbally communicated and got across what he was trying to say. Though I would have liked to see the "Shut up and leave me alone" t shirt appear, we can't all get what we want. Ruffalo did a great job, everything I've heard, seen or read about Dave, Ruffalo seemed to pull it off. He was the easy going nice guy who liked everybody and you couldn't really say anything bad about. Carell pulled off DuPont pretty well. He seemed more like a ghost, and even though I never met DuPont or was around that ever, just to me it seemed like he really made you believe that he was this guy. The ending was very disturbing and hard to watch and I'll explain why.  I think most of us know the details about what happened, and we can all kind of see it happen in our head, but it's much different when you actually see it like that, even if it's a movie.

 

Here's what I didn't like though.  There wasn't much mention of Dave's career, it shows him as mostly just a coach, he also wrestled at the 88 Trials, but I guess that must have been cut, I remember Ellis Coleman saying he played Kenny Monday.  Dave was a special wrestler and I wish that would have been brought up more.  The fast forward at the end bugged me, but I understand it. I didn't understand why they put the UFC stuff in there, UFC didn't even take place until 1993 but they were watching a tape in 1987/88? I watched the UFC on Saturday and one of the announcers mentioned Mark saying that he would have been one of the all time greats had he not been forced into choosing between UFC and coaching.  I understand they can't show it all, but it'd be nice to see him make that choice kind of, instead of letting us think he became a fighter. I also didn't understand when Mark lost to I think Chiaparelli, he walks off the mat and Dave says not to worry since it's a best of three, then he has to weigh in again, then winds up wrestling and beating Sheets? Was there something cut we didn't see? That just didn't make sense to me. 

 

It was cool to see a lot of wrestlers I recognized in the film though. Angle, Schultz, Abdurakmanov, Herbert, I'm missing a few others. I would say it's a solid 8/10 and that's just because some of the stuff got cut out or wasn't explained.

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I saw Foxcatcher and give it a 7.5 out of 10.  The director's previous works "Moneyball" and "Capote" offered more entertaining story lines.  Dupont was a strange dude.  This movie will wet the palette for the forthcoming documentary about the life and times of Dave and Mark Schultz that is currently being pitched and sold to documentary bidders like ESPN, HBO, and CNN.  Like the movie "Miracle" when compared with the HBO documentary "Do you believe in Miracles" the documentary offered up much more than what the mainstream movie was able to deliver to a mainstream audience.

 

I've been a Dave Schultz fan and followed his career and first seen him compete live in Toledo, OH at the World Cup event in 1978 (I was really young : ))

 

Foxcatcher fast forwards to Dave's death skipping the time period between 1988 and the murder in 1996.  I thought it was interesting that the movie chose Wexler college as the location where Dave and Mark trained prior to relocating to Foxcatcher.  The reality is that they were training at Wisconsin Univ.  I've not been able to find any explanation why this was done.

 

The performances were incredibly good.  Ruffalo showcased his talents very well in nailing Dave's mannerisms and Channing Tatum's training sequences playing Mark with the wrestling dummy were well done.

 

The movie illustrates well the money problems with the $20 speaking engagement to a high school, and the Rahm & Noodle diet prior to the generous Dupont offer that proved to be enticing enough to take the deal.  The details of the camps and training were interesting and revealing.  It's nice to here Gable's reaction to the movie when he stated that he does not expect to see wrestling in a place where dollars alone will be enough of a carrot to cause athletes to feel compelled to have to go through what Mark went through.  Wrestling today is in a better place (financially) than where it was in the 80s, despite their successes.

 

The ending was particularly brutal and the rivalry and dynamics between older brother and younger was a strong part of the story.

 

I'd recommend the movie.  As a wrestling fan I would have like to have seen more wrestling details of their lives and less of the Dupont BS but the fact that the movie has sold well indicates that the producers and Director know what they're doing.

 

The Schultz documentary has pretty much been completed and is expected to air on one of the bidding networks sometime in the first Quarter of 2015, just in time for NCAAs.  I'm looking forward to the documentary, perhaps more now since I've seen the movie.

Whet the palette, btw. 

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I saw it over the week-end. There were maybe 20 people in the theatre. I had my oldest son with me, 14, and besides him and one guy who looked to be 25-30, I was easily the youngest guy in the place (and I'm 46). Me, my son, the 25-30 year old dude...besides us, no one who you would identify as possibly having a wrestling background. Mainly 60 and up, and most of them women.

 

I agree with some of the recent posts on the movie. Very well acted, very well done, almost too well done as someone said. I thought the wrestling scenes were done pretty well. It is kind of slow, especially in the beginning, but that almost adds to the overall tension of the movie. And yeah the 'crowd' I was in gasped at the end as well when Dave was shot. And even though I obviously knew it was coming, it was still sad. 

 

I'm glad I saw it, but it's not the kind of movie I'll watch again and again. It's just not that kind of movie...

 

I had given my son the background to the movie, and that it was not going to be a wrestling movie per se. He thought it was good; he said he thought they did a great job making du Pont seems odd and then progressively worse, without doing over the top stuff.

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Superb acting in my opinion.  I will be surprised if Steve C isn't a nominee for an Oscar.  I personally think Mark Ruffalo deserves one also.  Although his role could have been bigger, he captured Dave like no one else could have. 

Edited by smittyfan

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"My arts, theater" has just announced it is on the January Schedule. Hopefully John Stewart's movie will appear shortly thereafter so that I can complete this year's grand slam: Nightcrawler, Interstellar, Foxcather, Rosewater.

 

I wish I had known about this movie 3 1/2 years ago, when duPont was still alive and I was still working for the Pa Dept of Corrections, I would have researched some more data on the villain.

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JB, I saw Foxcatcher a couple of nights ago. Although I liked it, I really wouldn't call it a wrestling movie. I thought that Mark Ruffalo was awesome as Dave Schultz. Vanessa Regrave was great as DuPont's mother ("Wrestling is a low sport...")

 

Yes, Steve Carell was good as John DuPont, but he was so strange and detached that it was a role that almost had no shape. In retrospect, it's amazing what poor mental health gets tolerated when a person has influence.

 

It's also amazing how badly money can distort a sport. I think its great when some generous folks give big money to wrestling, but I can also see how easy it is for the sport to get distorted by a screwjob like DuPont.

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Saw it a couple of nights ago.  Well acted though I did not think much of the movie.  I'm really not sure what the director was trying to accomplish.  Dark as all hell, that's for sure, and it definitely does not depict wrestling in a positive light.  I hope for Mark's sake that Tatum's portrayal was exaggerated.  I remember when Mark came on Facebook ripping the movie prior to final edits.  I can understand why and wouldn't be surprised if his eventual about-face and endorsement were in some way financially induced.  To say his character does not come across well in the movie would be an understatement. 

 

If I left the theater with a single sentiment, it was that I hope and pray that Mark is alright and finds peace within himself.  

Edited by RED

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