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mlbruem

Mizzou vs Ohio State 12/14

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 Maybe it's time to throw out a once useful rule and lock in the match-ups.  If I was a television promotor, and this went down, I'd lose faith in the sport to ever be more than a limited audience.  This match could have been promoted in such a way, that the athletes would not only have been able to, but would have been EXCITED to get to build a t.v. audience, .  All we need to do is have consistent rules, haaa!  A Eureka moment!  Let's have objective rules, and better organized replay!!!  I think the consensus is 141 would be considered an insult to the sport, if it were any other sport.  Most teams take a few extra guys, but if you didn't have the right guy there, you might not want to feed a lighter weight guy up one just to forfeit his weight too.  There is a much better argument for the 97 pound match being a better strategy, but it certainly adds drama to their next match up.  The archaic rule of shifting for the "chess" advantage, may be hurting the positive promotion of our sport far more than it's actual worth.  Here's an idea.  Have a match of the week, and lock the line-ups in.  It would all settle out in that mix.  The opportunity to be on National TV would spark that level of commitment in a heartbeat.  

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I find it interesting that tOSU fans are complaining that someone opted not to wrestle against Stieber. Didn't he do that same thing at the All Star earlier this year at the last minute? While it is disappointing to not get to see the match up it is what it is. Maybe there's more to this situation, but either way it's Smith's call to not wrestle someone for whatever reason. Giving up 6 team points is the cost for such a decision, but it turned out to not matter in the end (unlike the Northwestern/Wisonsin forfeits) as MO came out on top. 

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Do we care about results or process? When Northwestern or Wisconsin forfeits and loses, there are calls to fire the coach. Missouri forfeited three times in their last two duals but happened to win both. Any vitriol aimed at the other teams should apply here as well, especially since Missouri actually had the guys to wrestle but chose not to.

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I find it interesting that tOSU fans are complaining that someone opted not to wrestle against Stieber. Didn't he do that same thing at the All Star earlier this year at the last minute? While it is disappointing to not get to see the match up it is what it is. Maybe there's more to this situation, but either way it's Smith's call to not wrestle someone for whatever reason. Giving up 6 team points is the cost for such a decision, but it turned out to not matter in the end (unlike the Northwestern/Wisonsin forfeits) as MO came out on top.

it wasn't Logan. It was the doctor at all star match who scratched Logan from the match. Had Logan gone on tech fall, the game would have gone to Missouri. The fans wanted to see Logan to wrestle, not a forfeit.

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I find it interesting that tOSU fans are complaining that someone opted not to wrestle against Stieber. Didn't he do that same thing at the All Star earlier this year at the last minute? While it is disappointing to not get to see the match up it is what it is. Maybe there's more to this situation, but either way it's Smith's call to not wrestle someone for whatever reason. Giving up 6 team points is the cost for such a decision, but it turned out to not matter in the end (unlike the Northwestern/Wisonsin forfeits) as MO came out on top. 

LOGAN PISSED BLOOD after the weigh in.  Not the same thing.  

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LOGAN PISSED BLOOD after the weigh in.  Not the same thing.  

How the heck do any of you know that's not what happened to Mayes?  Point is, tOSU has absolutely NO business questioning any coaches' decisions about whether or not to wrestle any given athlete.  Their track record in this dept. is...um...er....not exactly stellar.

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"How the heck do any of you know that's not what happened to Mayes?"

 

I don't even know if he weighed in.

 

 

" Point is, tOSU has absolutely NO business questioning any coaches' decisions about whether or not to wrestle any given athlete."

 

Just for clarity, are you saying that fans of any teams except TOSU, are free to question coaches decisions?

 

 

 

"Their track record in this dept. is...um...er....not exactly stellar."

 

How do you know this?

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A. There shouldn't be a DIV1 school that should forfeit without penalty.  It's entirely plausible that the MO 141 was no match for Stieber and the Missouri calculus was to not compete.  It's likely in this case that the end result would have been 6 points either way.

 

B. There should be an NCAA team deduction at the NCAA championships for every dual meet forfeit, and there should be a seed demotion with regard to the weight that was forfeited.

 

My question is ... 

 

Did the forfeit help Mizzou win on criteria?  If so, forfeits should be the first criteria to prevent the incentive.

 

Alternatively, forfeits could be worth anywhere from 7 to 10 points.  you make the call. I think maybe 8 pts may be fair.

Edited by skikayaker

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A. There shouldn't be a DIV1 school that should forfeit without penalty.  It's entirely plausible that the MO 141 was no match for Stieber and the Missouri calculus was to not compete.  It's likely in this case that the end result would have been 6 points either way.

 

B. There should be an NCAA team deduction at the NCAA championships for every dual meet forfeit, and there should be a seed demotion with regard to the weight that was forfeited.

 

My question is ... 

 

Did the forfeit help Mizzou win on criteria?  If so, forfeits should be the first criteria to prevent the incentive.

 

Alternatively, forfeits could be worth anywhere from 7 to 10 points.  you make the call. I think maybe 8 pts may be fair.

I agree with all of this. I had a conversation with Coach Smith about this very thing a couple of years ago. He was a proponent of the 8 pt forfeit, because he believes duals should matter.

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You could make forfeits cost 100 points and I'm not sure the results would be that different. In a sport in which apparently only some local fans and maybe a handful of Internet posters care about duals, the only penalty that will move the needle is deducting points at nationals. Of course, this will never happen, so we will continue to get many forfeits every year even among top 10 and even top 5 programs.

 

If Mayes was hurt, Godspeed, but sitting someone out in a big dual like this one where every point counts is a bitch-ass move. Not saying Smith did that, but I never understood its logic. You can't wrestle him because I think you'll get your ass so severely beat that it'll screw with your mind. That's supposed to help??

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Coach Ryan is also a big proponent of duals, which is a heart warming change from the previous administration.

 

I wonder if he would favor a change in the scoring for forfeits, though.

 

And though I believe duals are the heart and soul of college wrestling, which wouldn't exist without them, I definitely don't favor such a scoring change.

Edited by LkwdSteve

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