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treep2000

L. Stieber

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I'm relatively new to the forum, but had seen quite a bit of hypothetical matchups when I first started reading back in the Taylor/Dake/Burroughs FS battles.  I'm honestly asking the forum's opinion on Logan Stieber, and thinking about the 'range' of possible dominance in this year's college wrestling season.  Here's my example:  Think Dake.  Yes... he won in the four different weight classes over four years, but wrestled at those weights.  When he was 165 his final year, could he have beaten the next weight class up or down?  What about the next two weight classes up or down (i.e. could he have beaten Ruth?). 

 

With Logan at 141, here's what I'm seeing and am thinking in terms of dominance (or, potential wins/losses, after all... he has moved up a few times at all star classics and such and ground out wins).

 

125:  Delgado vs. Stieber.  I 'think' Stieber already owns wins or at least higher placement on the FS Side.  Granted, Logan's bigger, but I think he takes this by blasting through the funk.

133:  Schopp vs. Stieber.  Stieber has owned him in the past, to the point of a TF in NCAA's.  Stieber wins here.

141:  Stieber's weight class, so of course he wins.  He just MDec the returning NCAA Runner-Up for the 2nd straight time.

149:  Tsirtsis vs. Stieber.  I see Logan winning this one as well.  On the FS side, their paths either have crossed, or were in similar brackets with Logan winning out.  Tsirtsis is bigger slightly, but then again, so was former NCAA champ Molinaro. 

157:  Ness vs. Stieber.  Here's where I see size becoming a signficant factor.  HOWEVER, even with Ness' funk and lightning fast pinning moves and such, I don't see Logan being trashed here.  I see a scenario where Stieber's grit actually pulls out a narrow decision (depending on day, air temp, water quality, etc.)...

165:  Dieringer vs. Stieber.  Too much size, too much power, Stieber goes down

 

So... in my hair-brained analysis, I have Stieber POTENTIALLY winning 5 weight classes (2 down, his own, and 2 up).  Are there any other NCAA champs that could fit that mold, and if so, who? 

 

I think HWT needs to be excluded, but 197 could be in... why?  Last year, Ruth would have beaten Cox... just sayin'.

 

My apologies if you view this as trolling or whatever, but when the OSU/Mizzou thread was going, someone said (jokingly) to bump Stieber to 197 and Snyder to HWT.  Yes.. it was a joke, but it got me thinking about just how far Stieber COULD go against today's #1 ranked guys at the weight classes around him.

 

Thoughts?

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Just so I'm clear BAC, are you suggesting that if Logan doesn't make the cut, comes in at a higher weight, that he could take Ness?  I was personally on the fence on the whole Ness thing myself, hence the 'narrow' victory if it comes down to sheer grit. 

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I think its more than just the weight cut, its the size difference.  So if Stieber is at his walking-around weight between duals, I think he still loses.  Maybe if we're talking off season and Stieber bulks up a little, while Ness still makes weight at 157, then sure, Stieber could win.  But in general I think its really hard at this level to pick someone to go up 2 weights and win -- especially in the lower/middle weights.

Edited by BAC

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So we're saying Logan has to cut to 125?  He can't even make the cut to 133 anymore.   Delgado would kill him at 125 if Logan has to make that cut, if the cut alone doesn't kill him.  This is ridiculous.  Ness would beat Logan also, even though Logan is the better wrestler.  Ness is a big boy at 157.

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I suppose I didn't put good parameters around it all... for argument's sake, let's assume that each wrestler is weighed in at their current weight class... no walk around weights. 

 

I'm posing this hypothetical, because of my above example of Tsirtsis/Stieber.  Both at 149/141 respectively, and Stieber, the lower weight class guy wins.  So... just because one is 'bigger' or in a higher weight class, it doesn't mean the heavier guy will win.  Another Example would have been the year before, with Maple at 141 and Stieber at 133.  Stieber still wins (and won, granted he jumped for their match from 133 to 149 for the All Star Classic). 

 

The more I hear from the crowd, I'm tending to agree about Ness.  His stature and MO is just too much.

 

On that note... Who does Dieringer beat?  Does he beat Ness? (yeah)  Does he beat Kokesh?  Does he beat Thomusseit? (sp?). 

 

Does Delgado beat Schopp?  Does Kokesh beat Thomusseit?  Does Kokesh beat Gadson?  etc. etc. etc.... fun little hypothetical mind meld whilst not much action is happening on the circuit.  :-)

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Steiber is great, but weight is a huge difference - he's barely a year removed to losing to a guy in his own weight class.  He also wrestled one guy above him last year, which was Maple who took 7th.  That went to rideouts IIRC. 

 

Wait, at that time Maple was one weight above him AND a returning national champ.

 

But I agree weight is way too big a factor to ignore.

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I think Stieber is in my top 8 all time.  Love the stud.  He beat Jordan Oliver, when I was calling JO one of the top Pokes in the last 30 years.

If he wins his fourth, I would consider him the greatest lightweight of all time along with Uetake.    I know there will be some debate here though.   Also, I think Stieber would be awesome in MMA. 

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, I think Stieber would be awesome in MMA.

I'm guessing he will be taking the international route for the near future. However it wouldn't be hard to use his wrestling connections (guys like with Lance Palmer specifically) to get in with Team Alpha Male which is about as elite as you can get for MMA lightweights.

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He lost to JO and Dardanes as a freshman, and once to Zain last year. He has avenged every loss he has had, which is noteworthy IMO. I don't know if his losses his true freshman year counted or not since he medical red shirted, but I've heard they do and don't count, depending on who you talk to. I don't think he took an actual red shirt year outside of that, so I personally wouldn't count his losses that year.

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