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treep2000

L. Stieber

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Ed Ruth also had 3 career losses. Dean during his senior year. Amushtegei (Stanford) during NCAA's in his Freshmen year (medical forfeit, he came back to take 3rd but I wonder how he would have done had he got past that match and met Jon Reader in the finals that year). Who owns his 3rd loss?

 

Interesting that I believe Ruth also avenged at least 2 of his 3 losses, if not 3 out of 3.

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Ed Ruth also had 3 career losses. Dean during his senior year. Amushtegei (Stanford) during NCAA's in his Freshmen year (medical forfeit, he came back to take 3rd but I wonder how he would have done had he got past that match and met Jon Reader in the finals that year). Who owns his 3rd loss?

 

Interesting that I believe Ruth also avenged at least 2 of his 3 losses, if not 3 out of 3.

 

Ruth's first loss was to Mike Letts of Maryland. That loss was never avenged, but there is no shame in that because Letts was a senior and AA that year while Ruth was a freshman. Ruth did outplace Letts at NCAAs though, if that counts for anything (3rd vs. 7th).

 

And in response to your last thread, you are correct, Taylor is 0-5 against Dake in college and senior freestyle.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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Stieb vs Delgado...not possible, Stieb would need a wheel chair to get on the mat before he passes out

Stieb vs any 149 this year he wins

Stieb at 155 vs Ness at 157 with the match an hour or so after weigh ins..Stieb wins. Tourny style and Ness recovers to 165 by the time they wrestle...very tough to call, prob take Ness here, thats alot of weight to give up to guy like Ness.

Stieb vs Dieringer...be close but again, too much weight to give to that stud hes at least 170 by match time. Ringer wins

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Stieb vs Delgado...not possible, Stieb would need a wheel chair to get on the mat before he passes out

Stieb vs any 149 this year he wins

Stieb at 155 vs Ness at 157 with the match an hour or so after weigh ins..Stieb wins. Tourny style and Ness recovers to 165 by the time they wrestle...very tough to call, prob take Ness here, thats alot of weight to give up to guy like Ness.

Stieb vs Dieringer...be close but again, too much weight to give to that stud hes at least 170 by match time. Ringer wins

 

I love Logan Stieber, he's one of my favorite NCAA wrestlers ever, but Logan vs. Dieringer close? Sorry, that is pure lunacy. Dieringer would put a serious whooping on Logie Bear. He is just way too big. He is a full three weights and 24 lbs bigger!! Dieringer could wrestle 174 and not be small, let's be real, it would not be close.

 

That is not a sligh ton Stieber. I would expect Kyle Dake to get hurt wrestling Dustin Kilgore or Quentin Wright (in peak condition), I would expect Jordan Burroughs to have no better luck facing Jake Varner, I would expect Stephen Abas to get hammered by Eric Larkin or Jared Lawrence, I would expect senior year Tom Brands to get majored or worse by Mark Branch or Marcus Mollica, etc. etc.

 

In the modern era, I can't think of one guy who could go up three weights and keep it close with another NCAA champ.

 

The only way Stieber shows up to wrestle Delgado is in a coffin. He will never see 125 and most likely not even 133 again. He is a hoss at 141 and still cuts heavily to make that weight.

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An illustration of why I asked in the first place... (and... thank you all for your responses!)

 

2010 NCAA National Championships:

 

125:  Matt McDonough:  Beats 133 Ness, loses to all others above

133:  Jayson Ness:  Loses to 125 McDonough, and 141+

141:  Kyle Dake:  Beats 125-133, but Metcalf?  Hmmm...

149:  Brent Metcalf:  Metcalf v. Dake?  Hmmm... Beats 157, loses to Howe

157:  JP O'Connor:  Loses to Metcalf/Howe

165:  Andrew Howe:  Beats all below, beats 174 Borschel, has trouble with Askren+

174:  Jay Borschel:  Loses to those above and below

184:  Max Askren: Beats Borschel, but Howe gives him a fight, loses to Varner

197:  Jake Varner:  Varner destroys all who oppose

285:  Dave Zabriskie: Zabriskie loses to Varner

 

In this instance, especially looking at Middleweights, no one here really has a clear 'shot' at running many tables across the weight classes.  Howe is pretty down close for 2010.  This is an example of why I posed the thought.  Any additional takers?

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My point is there's a reason why we have weight classes. While it's fun to speculate how an all-time best guy would do up a weight, let's keep our sanity as we speculate beyond an 8-lb difference. THREE weights is just way too much weight to give up for anybody, I don't care how good he was.

 

We have all heard stories of Gable running the gauntlet in his Olympic team practices and what not, but in official competition, and in this modern ultra-competitive era where everyone is scouted easily and every weight is filled with an NCAA champ who emerged the victor after a 35-match season, there is no way you can give up around 20% of your bodyweight and not get your ass kicked against a national champion-level opponent, let's be real! Elite 197 pounders are the exception because there is a law of diminishing returns for weight, but Logan Stieber is like 5'8" and wrestles 141, for crying out loud.

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I don't think anyone is suggesting that Logan would beat many, if any, 197lb guys... My question is around HOW FAR one could go... jump over to FS for a minute and take one of the Russian middleweights from legend... methinks Saitiev, at his prime, could have beaten pretty much... well... anyone... at any weight, with the exception of Karelin... :-)

 

I think that's the challenge though that I'm posing... especially to the middle weight guys... how far of a span could they hypothetically beat?  Pat Smith?  Dake?  Cael?  Logan's on the verge of becoming one of those four horsemen, and it is 'fun' to think about the possible range... after all, when he does turn his attention to FS, there are less weight classes, and the probability of him taking on a Tsirtis/Houdashelt becomes very real very quickly...

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Adam Saitiev won 2x gold at a bumped up 84 kg and had wins over guys who won 96 kg gold so there's a precedent.

 

Regarding Stieber I think he relies on strength advantage a lot and would struggle against bigger guys. Maybe not 49 but definitely 57.

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McDonoughs SR season he was hampered by a shoulder injury that required surgery after the season was over.  Now I'm not here to make excuses for him, and I can guarantee he wouldn't want me to either way, but lets be honest, a healthy McD his senior year and we are likely stacking him up against the all time greats as a 4x Finalist, 3x Champ.

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