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each of fleming's matches were riddled with controversy. opposing coaches and fans called for illegal chokes as wrestlers' faces turned bright red. prior to the realbuto matchonly once the ref called it an illegal move. every other match it was called "potentially dangerous" so fleming would go right back to it. the frustration on the wrong end boiled over during the realbuto and he bit fleming several times. in the finals DA was seemingly in control prior to fleming's patented "move" taking place after DA chose down. after the first couple times it was cinched in you see the "wind out of the sails" of DA but he was still hanging in there. it got so bad at one loint during the third period of the finals, Dylan literally tapped out.

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each of fleming's matches were riddled with controversy. opposing coaches and fans called for illegal chokes as wrestlers' faces turned bright red. prior to the realbuto matchonly once the ref called it an illegal move. every other match it was called "potentially dangerous" so fleming would go right back to it. the frustration on the wrong end boiled over during the realbuto and he bit fleming several times. in the finals DA was seemingly in control prior to fleming's patented "move" taking place after DA chose down. after the first couple times it was cinched in you see the "wind out of the sails" of DA but he was still hanging in there. it got so bad at one loint during the third period of the finals, Dylan literally tapped out.

 

very few times has the move been illegal typically it is stopped by a green official who doesnt know the move and the rules

 

these stops cost him matches in his first two years when officials would blow it dead but since actual footage of him using the move was included in the college rules video very few officials have made the call to stop it uncomfortable yes but illegal or chocking no

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Mason Beckman continues to make the most of his redshirt....beats 4 time PA champ Guilibon the 3rd time this year already if i'm not mistaken. that's impressive![/quote

 

Beckman has certainly been impressive. Jimmy looks a bit undersized out there. i couldn't believe how big mark grey is. tbe grey/gulibon match was one for the ages. next year i could see jimmy growing into 133 and mark grey going at 141. if grey, gulibon, beckman, stieber, and ramos are all at 133 it should rival that 149 a few years back that had metcalf, jenkins, caldwell, and burroughs

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Mason Beckman continues to make the most of his redshirt....beats 4 time PA champ Guilibon the 3rd time this year already if i'm not mistaken. that's impressive![/quote

 

Beckman has certainly been impressive. Jimmy looks a bit undersized out there. i couldn't believe how big mark grey is. tbe grey/gulibon match was one for the ages. next year i could see jimmy growing into 133 and mark grey going at 141. if grey, gulibon, beckman, stieber, and ramos are all at 133 it should rival that 149 a few years back that had metcalf, jenkins, caldwell, and burroughs

 

 

Sorry but 149 that year had established stars. Minus Stieber and Ramos, those guys you mentioned haven't done enough in NCAA yet to gain comparison to that weight.

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I'm teed off I didn't get to see any of the action, particularly as I must have been the only a**-hole in the entire US of A to set my alarm for 3 AM only to find no live webcast.

 

Bottom line . . . if and when any of those matches are up, can some kind soul give a heads-up?

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each of fleming's matches were riddled with controversy. opposing coaches and fans called for illegal chokes as wrestlers' faces turned bright red. prior to the realbuto matchonly once the ref called it an illegal move. every other match it was called "potentially dangerous" so fleming would go right back to it. the frustration on the wrong end boiled over during the realbuto and he bit fleming several times. in the finals DA was seemingly in control prior to fleming's patented "move" taking place after DA chose down. after the first couple times it was cinched in you see the "wind out of the sails" of DA but he was still hanging in there. it got so bad at one loint during the third period of the finals, Dylan literally tapped out.

 

 

From the few wrestlers I've talked to that have wrestled Fleming, getting choked isn't even the major issue with the move. The air supply doesn't really get cut off, but it feels like he's going to break every one of your teeth because of the way the pressure is applied across your head.

 

Is the Fleming snapper the best move in college wrestling?

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You mean Metcalf, Jenkins, Caldwell, and Burroughs...and Palmer...and Churella...and O'Connor...and Lang...and Schlatter. Plus other All Americans Hall, Patacsil, Kinser, Fisch, and Saddoris. Long way to go.

 

That being said, if Gulibon and Grey both stay down at 133, it would be a fun weight. They're both going to be good ones and Beckman has really taken a step forward this year. Jesse Thielke may end up there too, no? But I'd still take whatever odds you'd give me on Logan Stieber to win it

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Beckman has made huge strides this year I think the move to 133 is allowing him to train and wrestle at a much healthier weight. Gulibon does look undersized a little undersized but is still a hammer. For PSU it would probably be better to have gulibon starting at 133 this year but for Gulibon the extra year in the PSU room and time to put on a little size will only benefit him.

 

Should be fun to watch in the years to come impressive wins over Grey, Horan, and Martellotti.

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each of fleming's matches were riddled with controversy. opposing coaches and fans called for illegal chokes as wrestlers' faces turned bright red. prior to the realbuto matchonly once the ref called it an illegal move. every other match it was called "potentially dangerous" so fleming would go right back to it. the frustration on the wrong end boiled over during the realbuto and he bit fleming several times. in the finals DA was seemingly in control prior to fleming's patented "move" taking place after DA chose down. after the first couple times it was cinched in you see the "wind out of the sails" of DA but he was still hanging in there. it got so bad at one loint during the third period of the finals, Dylan literally tapped out.

 

 

From the few wrestlers I've talked to that have wrestled Fleming, getting choked isn't even the major issue with the move. The air supply doesn't really get cut off, but it feels like he's going to break every one of your teeth because of the way the pressure is applied across your head.

 

Is the Fleming snapper the best move in college wrestling?

The Snapper may just be one of the best top moves in NCAA wrestling right now. I havent seen to many people fight it off or not get turned in it. I have also been told that the air supply is a non-issue with the snapper. Its the crazy pressure on the opponents jaw. My question is, If the snapper cant be stopped why arent more wrestlers utilizing it?

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It seems like I should know this, BUT, if say at the Midlands or NLO or some other open tourney a college wrestler runs into a wrestler who graduated or is redshirting does that win or loss count for their record?

 

If the answer is no then I guess Megaludis remains undefeated.

 

Hypothetically, if yes, what would prevent someone like Cael from holting in his tracks another guy who is trying to tie or break his record of 159-0?

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each of fleming's matches were riddled with controversy. opposing coaches and fans called for illegal chokes as wrestlers' faces turned bright red. prior to the realbuto matchonly once the ref called it an illegal move. every other match it was called "potentially dangerous" so fleming would go right back to it. the frustration on the wrong end boiled over during the realbuto and he bit fleming several times. in the finals DA was seemingly in control prior to fleming's patented "move" taking place after DA chose down. after the first couple times it was cinched in you see the "wind out of the sails" of DA but he was still hanging in there. it got so bad at one loint during the third period of the finals, Dylan literally tapped out.

 

 

From the few wrestlers I've talked to that have wrestled Fleming, getting choked isn't even the major issue with the move. The air supply doesn't really get cut off, but it feels like he's going to break every one of your teeth because of the way the pressure is applied across your head.

 

Is the Fleming snapper the best move in college wrestling?

The Snapper may just be one of the best top moves in NCAA wrestling right now. I havent seen to many people fight it off or not get turned in it. I have also been told that the air supply is a non-issue with the snapper. Its the crazy pressure on the opponents jaw. My question is, If the snapper cant be stopped why arent more wrestlers utilizing it?

Because many people understand it to be potentially dangerous, while officials grapple with its use? Look. Something is wrong when people are tapping out and left on the mat shaking it off during stops in action.

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This is one of my favorite videos to show this move. Here are a couple reasons why.

The ref is right on top of him, if something was illegal the ref would see it from his view point. You can see Mr. Flemings forearm along Burns jawline. I believe this is where most of the pressure comes from. You can also see at the 1:32 mark that Fleming is clearly not across the throat. To top it off Mr. Burns tries to "tapout" at the 1:31 mark and the ref just keeps counting points because the airway is not obstructed. In wrestling your supposed to make your opponent as uncomfortable as possible, and I think Fleming is pretty good at it!!

 

 

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/299006-149-Fleming-Clarion-VS-Burns-UNC

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I too fail to see .............

 

Agree.

 

It doesnt make sense as to why Penn State would be brought up in the context of the Billy George video. Educate me on what I'm failing to see please.

 

I don't know if I can. Red blades already tried but when psu homer ski kayaker decided to make an over the top and condescending statement about George's actions, I simply pointed out that every team has the occasional knucklehead.

 

Calling out kids and giving it to coaches for how they handle things and then Making homosexual references about the kid says a lot for our sport, really. Since the psu chorale rarely posts anything outside their own little worlds I felt it necessary to remind him that it happens to many programs.

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Hey Mr. Lord take a deep breath and get over it. I answered a question that was posted in this thread. I stand by everything I said. Perhaps I'll draw a line through the one part of my post that could possibly be offensive to some with thin skin:

 

here is the lost video of the George and Brown altercation. Really ugly and unsportsmanlike. Cornell and George should have received more penalties.

did Koll slap George to the back of the head????
Koll grabbed the back of his neck quite hard, but the ref at the same time motioned for the DQ with the red band at the same time giving the illusion of a big slap in the back of the head.

I hadn't seen that video but if I were a coach he'd be off my team that very moment and I'd have the school Dean take a look at the video. The kid can't go through life with a temper like that. It will get him in big trouble. Lehigh's Brown was winning the match at that point, and I'm sure George gets it handed to him day in and day out with a smaller Dake. It must be frustrating for him always taking it from behind all the time.

There, I put a line through the part that seems to be ruining your day. And like another poster said, my post has nothing to do with Penn State ... so I suggest you stay on topic, AND you're PSU Homer comment is not accurate.

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My bad in bringing up George. I should have known it would cause something like this but it was not intentional. I remembered hearing his name on the broadcast (William George) and it wasn't until the DQ in this thread that I thought it was the same guy.

 

Old news now.

 

That move by Flemming looks bad. He seems to have it mastered pretty well also.

I don't think the answer is biting.

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This is one of my favorite videos to show this move. Here are a couple reasons why.

The ref is right on top of him, if something was illegal the ref would see it from his view point. You can see Mr. Flemings forearm along Burns jawline. I believe this is where most of the pressure comes from. You can also see at the 1:32 mark that Fleming is clearly not across the throat. To top it off Mr. Burns tries to "tapout" at the 1:31 mark and the ref just keeps counting points because the airway is not obstructed. In wrestling your supposed to make your opponent as uncomfortable as possible, and I think Fleming is pretty good at it!!

 

 

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/299006-149-Fleming-Clarion-VS-Burns-UNC

 

Fleming vs Welch the play by play is golden.

 

http://www.flowrestling.org/video/622506-MOV419-Jason-Welch

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It seems like I should know this, BUT, if say at the Midlands or NLO or some other open tourney a college wrestler runs into a wrestler who graduated or is redshirting does that win or loss count for their record?

If the answer is no then I guess Megaludis remains undefeated.

Hypothetically, if yes, what would prevent someone like Cael from holting in his tracks another guy who is trying to tie or break his record of 159-0?

No answer to my question ... however, I see that Megaludis has a loss on his record. Which leads me to the question, suppose there was a guy on an undefeated path to surpass Cael's 159-0 record and Cael comes out of retirement to try to prevent it from happening, could this happen? Is there a difference regarding whether or not a win or a loss counts if its between a UNA wrestler who is redshirting with at least one year of eligibility remaining vs a UNA wrestler who is no longer eligible to compete at the college level?

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Skikayaker,

Below is a quote from Jason Bryant on another board on what Losses count in an open tournament(so by your scenerio of Cael coming out of retirement to give a wrestler a loss--that loss would not count)

 

 

"It's a little different in determining what is what.

 

If you take a loss to a redshirt, a wrestler who is currently on the roster and enrolled in school, then the L counts.

If you take a loss to a wrestler who is sitting out of school (like Lorenzo Thomas) and is not an active member of the roster, then the L does not count.

If you take a loss to a wrestler not currently enrolled in school, the loss does not count.

 

These rules might have to be clarified in the future because of the prevalence of OTC wrestlers (at Western opens like the Cowboy) and Finger Lakes wrestlers who are enrolled in school, but part-time and their clocks not starting.

 

Megaludis' loss to Zanetta counts. A loss to say, Dawson Peck, a VT recruit not currently enrolled, does not."

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It seems like I should know this, BUT, if say at the Midlands or NLO or some other open tourney a college wrestler runs into a wrestler who graduated or is redshirting does that win or loss count for their record?

If the answer is no then I guess Megaludis remains undefeated.

Hypothetically, if yes, what would prevent someone like Cael from holting in his tracks another guy who is trying to tie or break his record of 159-0?

No answer to my question ... however, I see that Megaludis has a loss on his record. Which leads me to the question, suppose there was a guy on an undefeated path to surpass Cael's 159-0 record and Cael comes out of retirement to try to prevent it from happening, could this happen? Is there a difference regarding whether or not a win or a loss counts if its between a UNA wrestler who is redshirting with at least one year of eligibility remaining vs a UNA wrestler who is no longer eligible to compete at the college level?

 

I'm not well versed in the rules, but I believe based on what I've seen in the past, the answer is more nuanced, i.e., redshirts are different from non-students.

 

Example - Nick Arujau was not enrolled as a student first semester last year, but wrestled several open tournaments and wrestled unnattached in the Scuffle. Second semester he was enrolled and competed as a student. His second semester record was used to determine qualification for NCAA's, but matches wrestled before he enrolled did not count (and still do not show up on the record).

 

Regarding redshirts - I don't know this for sure, but I THINK that wins / losses vs redshirts does not count, UNLESS the redshirt is pulled; if that happens, then the entire season record for the redshirt athlete counts (including matches wrestled unnattached). Someone with a better understanding of the rules (SHP, or Gimp maybe?) may be able to confirm that.

 

As far as Cael spoiling someone's record - unless Cael has NCAA eligibility left, that couldn't happen!

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