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Nittany Lion Open

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It seems like I should know this, BUT, if say at the Midlands or NLO or some other open tourney a college wrestler runs into a wrestler who graduated or is redshirting does that win or loss count for their record?

If the answer is no then I guess Megaludis remains undefeated.

Hypothetically, if yes, what would prevent someone like Cael from holting in his tracks another guy who is trying to tie or break his record of 159-0?

No answer to my question ... however, I see that Megaludis has a loss on his record. Which leads me to the question, suppose there was a guy on an undefeated path to surpass Cael's 159-0 record and Cael comes out of retirement to try to prevent it from happening, could this happen? Is there a difference regarding whether or not a win or a loss counts if its between a UNA wrestler who is redshirting with at least one year of eligibility remaining vs a UNA wrestler who is no longer eligible to compete at the college level?


I'm not well versed in the rules, but I believe based on what I've seen in the past, the answer is more nuanced, i.e., redshirts are different from non-students.


Example - Nick Arujau was not enrolled as a student first semester last year, but wrestled several open tournaments and wrestled unnattached in the Scuffle. Second semester he was enrolled and competed as a student. His second semester record was used to determine qualification for NCAA's, but matches wrestled before he enrolled did not count (and still do not show up on the record).


Regarding redshirts - I don't know this for sure, but I THINK that wins / losses vs redshirts does not count, UNLESS the redshirt is pulled; if that happens, then the entire season record for the redshirt athlete counts (including matches wrestled unnattached). Someone with a better understanding of the rules (SHP, or Gimp maybe?) may be able to confirm that.


As far as Cael spoiling someone's record - unless Cael has NCAA eligibility left, that couldn't happen!



I think the question was could someone out of school ruin this record? When Cael was wrestling there wasn't much of that kind of thing happening. Earlier a lot of out of school kids competed in some of the Opens (especially Midlands). Later a lot of HS kids started competing. Now the HS kids are a no-no.


There are no official rules for how a school considers a career record for an individual. The rules we talk about with what counts and what doesn't are those involving what counts towards seeding. I would guess that over the last several years most any school would follow those guidelines for career records but they don't have to. Cael did lose a match in his first (rsing) year.

And wins/losses vs red-shirts DO count for the other guy in all cases but only count for the rsing guy if pulled off. But they are all supposed to be reported.

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Thanks redblades and gimpeltf. This helps explain Megaludis recording a loss from his loss to Zanetta in the finals of the NLO this past weekend. Yes, Cael lost to the late Paul Jenn of Iowa in his RS year.


In later years competing in the Midlands his old nemesis Lee Fulhart showed up competing for Team Excel after graduating from Iowa and gave Cael all he wanted with Cael winning 5-3. I'm assuming in this case a Fullhart win would not have given Cael a loss on his record.


Here's the bracket for the 2001 Midlands 197 lb class.


The following year Fullhart competed for Gator at Midlands and lost to Jon Trenge. (2002 Midlands Brackets)


Another that comes to mind is when Fittery showed up last year at the Nittany Lion Open. That was a year where he had already graduated. I assume that if he had beaten Taylor it would NOT have counted on Taylor's record as a loss.

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As far as Fleming goes the wrestlers don't get choked out they "gray" out. Talk to any guy that has wrestled him.


Fleming stuffs the head to the shoulder and just about completely pinches off the carotid artery. The wrestler gets light-headed and goes over, which once the position changes this allows blood flow back to the brain and when the lights come back on, they see the ref doing his 5-count.


No choking required.


Best way to beat him is be quick with your finish or work upper-body.


And when it's your choice don't take bottom.

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