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AKHUNTER

McMullen should be suspended!!! and the Ref's as well.

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"If the ref just called Telford for stalling early on in the sequence like the rules say he was supposed to do, we never would of reached the point where McMullen felt he had to resort to these aggressive tactics." 

 

I wondered if we would see this excuse.

 

Telford dropped to the ankle at 20 seconds. The first and second kicks came at 19 and 18 seconds. McMullen was back to his feet at 15 seconds with Telford around his knee. McMullen was dropped back to the mat at 11 seconds with Telford back to the ankle. The next kick came at 9 seconds.

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If INSTANTLY means 7.5 seconds without returning him to the mat then I guess you are right.

 

https://vid.me/SUod

 

 

Bullcrap. He warned McMullan while McMullan was returning Telford to the mat in textbook fashion. What the official proved last night is that he was willing to warn the Northwestern wrestler in this match, but not the Iowa wrestler. McMullan was getting the standard old school Carver treatment there. 

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SV first td wins, no time limit.

Could not agree more.  Very simple.  The ride out is just nuts.  

 

I also think the defense pin is quite ridiculous and is horrible for the sport.

If someone is in a defense pin situation the ref should just tell the wrestler he is close--YES--warn the wrestler.

When I see stupid roll-through pins transpire it really discredits the sport. Nothing good comes from it. 

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IF those kicks were fine with ANYBODY..... your thinking is flawed imo. It isn't IF they were damaging, it is that they EASILY could have been VERY damaging. Just because they ended up "glancing" off doesn't make them legal. As well as a couple connected pretty solidly.

Otherwise let's just move on to MMA and forget folkstyle all together.

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Bullcrap. He warned McMullan while McMullan was returning Telford to the mat in textbook fashion. What the official proved last night is that he was willing to warn the Northwestern wrestler in this match, but not the Iowa wrestler. McMullan was getting the standard old school Carver treatment there. 

 

I know you are a little butt hurt from me owning you all day on this board.  So I can understand you probably letting your emotions cloud your judgment here, but if anything was textbook it was the stall call itself. There was for sure 5 seconds of half hearted attempts to bring him back to the mat. He was calling the stall before he started to return him.

 

He called Telford in roughly same amount of time, 6 seconds.  That is 5 seconds after McMullan started to kick him.   

 

This was not some kind of Carver treatment. If you watched the meet you would know this guy was doing no favors for Iowa, but I am skeptical you even watched the 2 videos I posted let alone the whole meet.  

Edited by OtisCampbell

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So there shouldn't be any risk for the offensive man if he attempts a stupid roll through?

No.

 

I like it when people attempt things.  It makes it exciting as they are being offensive.  If while trying something interesting or exciting they happen to roll for a second on their back, the rule should be changed so the ref can tell them,

"You are about to pin yourself" period.

The wrestler then has the choice, to stay or get off in anyway possible.  If his opponent keeps him there, he thus turns into the "offensive" wrestler and pins him.  The initial offensive wrestler does not "pin himself".  It provides NOTHING positive to the sport and only takes away from people being innovated.

 

If you want to reinforce the sport so people don't take chances and / or get caught in a roll through, and "pin themselves" that is your choice.

 

I find that boring.

Edited by leshismore

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Several issues, even though I didn't see the match. First I think it helps if the ref doesn't just stand there with whistle in mouth with everyone guessing if/when he'll call stalling.

Rather, let everyone in the whole arena know what is about to happen in the most definitive terms. During a standup, and after reasonable time, simply shout the wrestler's school, then count and wave to five loudly and slowly.

E.g. "Northwestern! ONE-TWO-THREE .... This puts everyone on notice, shuts up the homers and pressures the top guy to act quick. Total transparency, no surprises. 

In addition, from a coaching standpoint, the standup without lifting can be countered with top man using his legs to pinch one of his opponent's leg, applying all his weight to millstone-drag him down to the mat with hands locked tightly on the way down, then release grip. So many wrestlers seem lost on standups.

 

As for the hanging on the ankle, rather than put up with deciding if mule kicks are being done legally, just call stalemate. If it happens a second time it's stalling. Again use the 5 second wave count so everyone knows what the ref is thinking and doing about it. From a coaching stand point, the rider should use a shuck or slide by movement to pull the leg in, timing the shuck to coincide with an outward kick and going with the flow 'up and in' to a tight waist ride.  

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No.

 

I like it when people attempt things.  It makes it exciting as they are being offensive.  If while trying something interesting or exciting they happen to roll for a second on their back, the rule should be changed so the ref can tell them,

"You are about to pin yourself" period.

The wrestler then has the choice, to stay or get off in anyway possible.  If his opponent keeps him there, he thus turns into the "offensive" wrestler and pins him.  The initial offensive wrestler does not "pin himself".  It provides NOTHING positive to the sport and only takes away from people being innovated.

 

If you want to reinforce the sport so people don't take chances and / or get caught in a roll through, and "pin themselves" that is your choice.

 

I find that boring.

I guess all defense should just be removed then. That wouldn't be boring at all.

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I guess all defense should just be removed then. That wouldn't be boring at all.

I have no clue what you mean.

 

If you think defensive pins are good for the sport in any way... well... good for you. That is your opinion.

 

I simply see nothing positive in them. I personally feel it is a travesty, mockery, and a sham when some kid is up by ### of points, hits an exciting move, rolls through for a second while going for a fall and some tap happy ref slaps the mat. 

 

Just me.

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If you get defensively pinned 99% of the time it's because you did something stupid and got in a bad position. Falls are one of the most exciting things in this sport. The way I see it it's exciting either way whether you hit the move or get caught trying.

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If you get defensively pinned 99% of the time it's because you did something stupid and got in a bad position. Falls are one of the most exciting things in this sport. The way I see it it's exciting either way whether you hit the move or get caught trying.

FYI--Getting "caught" is not the same as a roll-through defensive pin.  Maybe you are not clear about that and have a limited knowledge of the sport.

 

You seem to feel that someone who is trying to pin his opponent, rolls through for a second, and the ref. slaps the mat is a positive aspect of the sport... well... that is your opinion.

 

Every year rules change to hopefully make the sport more interesting and exciting. I have never heard anyone say a roll-through, defensive pin is "exciting".  You seem to think it is "exciting"--a very interesting opinion. 

 

If you wish to maintain the roll-through defensive pin rule... well, knock yourself out.

 

My opinion is that it is a terrible aspect of the sport and adds nothing. It actually takes away from the spectator and prevents potential matches of the best two wrestlers.  

 

I say change the rule, verbally warn wrestlers when they are in that position (just like they warn about potentially dangerous situations).

 

That is my opinion.  You disagree. Good for you.  Keep the boring status quo going and support slap happy refs.

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I agree with Lesh in concept but don't think there is a way to handle the situation cleanly so am in favor of calling all pins pins. Not calling some pins while calling others is a slippery slope. As the sport has evolved, especially with the new rules, it is harder to determine who is in control at all times. Declaring certain positions from which pins can occur valid and others not adds further subjectivity. Sometimes it's hard to tell whether a guy pinned himself or his opponent put him in that position (e.g. last year's NCAAs, Villalonga was on top in a crab ride and It was hard to tell whether he pinned himself or Sakaguchi made it happen).

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Phish

 

The difference is no one called for Jeva to be suspended.   It should of been a penalty, but that is not the title of this post.

tbert....... I said suspended not expelled. Just so we are clear. I stand by that statement. The force that MM was kicking with could have ended Telford's season and simply, imo, can not be condoned nor go unpunished. imo it was flagrant misconduct.

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AK.... my point   was to point out the hipocrasy...  Ok for Jeva to kick Heil directly in the face without any suspension.

 

Upon reviewing the video of it again, I have changed my mind.  McMullen should not of even be penalized.   Unlike Jeva, he  did not kick Telford in the head.

He did use some forcefull leverage against his shoulder and back though. 

 

It should be noted the ref let Telford hang on the leg for a full 17 seconds before calling stalling.

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Really? Did you watch any of the other matches? This guy was doing no favors for Iowa. Both guys were stalling in overtime and they were both called. The kick could have easily been a point.  

 

Not saying McMullan didn't wrestle a good match or he was not "The Right Guy" but you know if Telford was the one booting him in the head and he end up winning there would be a 5 page long thread on this forum about the thuggery. 

 

Like what was pointed out before, I am guessing the ref didn't want to make the penalty point call and hence let Telford hold on longer than he should have. Which is just dumb refereeing since he put the wrestler in danger.  

This seems like such a homer post, Iowa wins 9 out of 10 matches leading to a team score of 38-3.. winning 2 out of 3 in overtime.. and the refs weren't cutting them any breaks.  They were so biased that Iowa could only mostly dominate NW.  I am a huge Minny fan but can easily admit that Zach Sanders was stomping Robles something awful the NCAAs a few years ago.  What's right is right regardless of the team.

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