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Ari Gold

The "no reaction time" rule regarding takedowns. Thoughts?

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This rule is a disgrace to our sport.  Giving away points before they are truly earned. 

 

Look, it could be worse. Remember the "almost TD" in freestyle, where all you had to do was look like you might get a TD and you got half credit (1 pt)? Thankfully, they got rid of that almost immediately.

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Not sure about all circumstances, but in the case of what happened in the Storley Evans match I think you need reaction time. 

it sounds like you haven't seen the match.  reaction time not needed in that instance.  control is needed.  evans did not have enough control to prevent storley from rolling through.  that being said, he was awarded a TD based on how the rule is written and is being interpreted.  as stated throughout both threads, the rule needs to be re-written.

Edited by lu_alum

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If you have control from rear standing and the hand touches, it's 2.

 

If you have control from rear standing and the opponent initiates a granby, then I'd disagree that you have control.  You had control, but while rolling through a granby you certainly don't.

this is a good example.  i'm assuming the rules, as written, would award a TD.  i would suggest that the TD should not be awarded until the granby sequence is completed.  if the "top" guy can follow and establishes control on the mat, it's a TD.  same thing for a standing switch.

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it sounds like you haven't seen the match.  reaction time not needed in that instance.  control is needed.  evans did not have enough control to prevent storley from rolling through.  that being said, he was awarded a TD based on how the rule is written and is being interpreted.  as stated throughout both threads, the rule needs to be re-written.

IMO, that should not be a TD for Evans in folkstyle. He had absolutely no control there.

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Can anyone actually post the rule and accompanying illustrations someone else alluded to?

 

Page WR-7 - Points of Emphasis (excerpt)

 

The figures below refer to the rule and section of those points the Wrestling Rules Committee has decided to emphasize for the 2013-14 and 2014-15 seasons.

 

Rule(s) page(s)

 

2.6 Reaction time involving hand on mat is removed......................17

 

Page WR-17 - Scoring Opportunities

 

2.6 Takedown

 

A takedown shall be awarded when, from the neutral position, a contestant gains control by taking the opponent down to the mat in bounds. (See Illustration Nos. 49 through 52.)

 

If the defensive wrestler’s hand comes in contact with the mat, it is considered control. 

(Note: In the rule book, the above statement is accentuated with a frame around it, indicating it is one of the points of emphasis.)

 

For the purpose of awarding takedown points at the edge of the wrestling area, points shall be awarded when control is established while any part of either wrestler remains in bounds. (See Illustration Nos. 43 through 49.) If the opponent’s body and the body of the wrestler attempting a takedown are outside the wrestling area, breaking the boundary of an imaginary cylinder surrounding and extending above the wrestling area and the opponent is out of bounds, a takedown shall not be awarded. (See Illustration No. 54.)

 

----

 

I'm not sure what illustrations someone else alluded to.  However, the referenced illustrations mentioned above rule can be found in the complete rule book, which is available as a free pdf download at the following link:  

 

http://www.ncaapublications.com/p-4317-2013-14-and-2014-15-wrestling-rules.aspx

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If we call the "no reaction time" takedown we might as well wrestle freestye.  Technically, an armspin can be a takedown under this rule even if the man rolls out of it and no control is established.  In most collegiate flurries, "no reaction time" takedowns would be endless (especially if we call a "no reaction time" reversal).  Control was one of the major distinguishing factors between the two styles.  Just another step toward freestyle.  JMHO.

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it sounds like you haven't seen the match.  reaction time not needed in that instance.  control is needed.  evans did not have enough control to prevent storley from rolling through.  that being said, he was awarded a TD based on how the rule is written and is being interpreted.  as stated throughout both threads, the rule needs to be re-written.

 

 

Reaction time allows for the lack of control to be countered. They are related. And I did see the match. 

Edited by TBar1977

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If we call the "no reaction time" takedown we might as well wrestle freestye. Technically, an armspin can be a takedown under this rule even if the man rolls out of it and no control is established. In most collegiate flurries, "no reaction time" takedowns would be endless (especially if we call a "no reaction time" reversal). Control was one of the major distinguishing factors between the two styles. Just another step toward freestyle. JMHO.

Totally agree

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I'm not sure what illustrations someone else alluded to.  However, the referenced illustrations mentioned above rule can be found in the complete rule book, which is available as a free pdf download at the following link: 

The issue that is being referred to is the rules language in the book eliminates the wording reaction time; however, photo #50 in the same book has the wording reaction time still in the caption.  It is contradictory but it is an editorial error.  Pat McCormick clarified that error in an addendum sheet a year or so ago.

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