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ioaw/psu thoughts

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Getting tired of the "oh we are redshirting so and so" metric. That might be fine in the preseason but this is the team Cael has put on the mat this year and these are the guys he is going with. We won't see Megaludis, Nolf or Retherford in the lineup this season, so any discussion with them in the lineup is irrelevant to the matches actually wrestled today.

 

Same can be said for ANY team redshirting guys. Northwestern wins more duals if Sebastian isn't redshirting, but that's what NW is going with

 

PSU lost with the team they have put on the mat this year. what ifs are for the offseason. The Alton thing is the only guy out of the lineup who would be relevant in this particular matchup.

 

Let's talk about the guys who are in the lineup. It's a disservice to the Kade Mosses of the world to just throw them out and say it's a loss because people are redshirting.

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I again disagree. I think this was the right spot to have something like this happen. Maybe it's my black and gold glasses. I'm not saying Iowa wanted to lose the matches they did in the fashion they did, just that by having the wrestlers be more tired thru a combo of extra training and travel schedule, while also getting a game opponent who you can count on being well-coached, It creates additional artificial adversity and mental training. The only guy negatively affected long term is Evans and his seeding since that match is going to be a dogfight mo matter what. Iowa needed a lot to go wrong to lose the dual given the matchups, so it's a safe spot.

 

Well, I disagree with your disagreement. For me, it's not whether it's the right timing for it, but the fact it happened at all, that I consider surprising. Whether or not they had a few rough practices in spite of the dual cannot explain some of the things I pointed out. But I guess there's still four weeks of training to do, so we'll see. It's frankly not a whole lot of time, and if I were an Iowa guy, I would've wanted to see a little more out of the team under any circumstances for this dual.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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The only guy negatively affected long term is Evans and his seeding since that match is going to be a dogfight mo matter what. 

 

 

Not so sure he is the only guy on your roster negatively affected. Moore's loss will hurt him seed wise at Big10's and NCAA's, and Clark's loss to Gulibon will do the same thing. Might not matter for Clark only in the sense that instead of facing Dardanes in the Big semis now he might face Taylor and he has lost to both of them. Losing again to Gulibon can't help his psyche. 

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Smack made Burak look slow, imo. Compare Burak's plodding first period attempts to the comparatively fast high crotch that Smack retaliated with. Two different levels of speed and commitment. 

So Morgan McIntosh is fast?  No kidding. He was one of the freakier athletes to come into college wrestling in years.

 

Burak usually wears his guys down and scores in the third. He was closer to getting a takedown on McIntosh in the third,even after getting ridden like a mule, when it should have been McIntosh pushing the pace and trying for a huge MD win. Where was McIntosh's different level speed and commitment then?  

 

Burak is a big grinding 197lber that wears most guys down and scores in the 3rd.It didn't work on McIntosh this time, but it was his getting ridden out at the end of periods and for a whole period that was the difference. I think he has the commitment and is on a level where he can beat him if he can get out from the bottom.  

Edited by OtisCampbell

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I think he has the commitment and is on a level where he can beat him if he can get out from the bottom.  

 

 

The word commitment only applied to the shots he took vs. the shot taken by Smackintosh. I thought that would have been pretty obvious given the topic of my prior post. 

Edited by TBar1977

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The only reason Burak looked any better in the last minute of that match was because McIntosh was spent trying to get the major and in the last 15 seconds, Burak was the one fighting off shots. 

 

Burak is a big, strong 197 without much offense. That's enough to get him to low AA, but not much more. 

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Getting tired of the "oh we are redshirting so and so" metric. That might be fine in the preseason but this is the team Cael has put on the mat this year and these are the guys he is going with. We won't see Megaludis, Nolf or Retherford in the lineup this season, so any discussion with them in the lineup is irrelevant to the matches actually wrestled today.

 

Same can be said for ANY team redshirting guys. Northwestern wins more duals if Sebastian isn't redshirting, but that's what NW is going with

 

PSU lost with the team they have put on the mat this year. what ifs are for the offseason. The Alton thing is the only guy out of the lineup who would be relevant in this particular matchup.

 

Let's talk about the guys who are in the lineup. It's a disservice to the Kade Mosses of the world to just throw them out and say it's a loss because people are redshirting.

 

The Alton thing???

 

Remember this?...

 

No different from any other sport in regards that if someone's out, the loss still counts. Alton being banged up but you wrestle with what you put on the mat. I doubt Sanderson is making excuses.

 

ps.  NJ marty, nice to see you climb out from under that rock during any Pa/PSU discussion.

Edited by pennsyrules

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Maybe Iowa isn't ready yet psychologically or they underestimated Penn State's young new names in the lineup. There's time to make the fix. At home and 4x defending champs, a little down in the ratings but a rat in the corner; PSU wrestled with emotion and pride and surprised everyone who thought it would be ugly for the Lions.

 

But as of now I don't see any Hawk individual national champs or them walking away with anything, BIG 10 or NCAAs.

 

Looks like a down-to-last-round, 2 or 3 way tight race in St. Louis.

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One thing about yesterday's match that I think any wrestling fan who saw it Live or on the BTN would agree upon is that the atmosphere was as good as it gets for wrestling. Probably the best atmosphere at a wrestling event that I have watched since last year's NCAA Tournament. 

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It was my first match at BJC and it was far more electric than anything I have seen at Rec Hall.  Personally, I would move the wrestling complex there and wrestle all the matches there.  PSU fans are looking for the "Carver-Hawkeye" home field advantage?  They have it at the BJC and will never have it at Rec Hall.

 

PSU did what they always do, they wrestled hard for the whole 7 minutes and kept attacking and had 16,000 fans behind them.  To say it was a hostile environment for Iowa is an understatement. 

 

Evans did nothing the whole match (but didn't think he was outright stalling) and I actually feel bad for Moore.  He looks done.

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It was my first match at BJC and it was far more electric than anything I have seen at Rec Hall.  Personally, I would move the wrestling complex there and wrestle all the matches there.  PSU fans are looking for the "Carver-Hawkeye" home field advantage?  They have it at the BJC and will never have it at Rec Hall.

 

PSU did what they always do, they wrestled hard for the whole 7 minutes and kept attacking and had 16,000 fans behind them.  To say it was a hostile environment for Iowa is an understatement. 

 

Evans did nothing the whole match (but didn't think he was outright stalling) and I actually feel bad for Moore.  He looks done.

I don't think PSU would be able to keep the atmosphere up. Demand for tickets is probably about the same as at Iowa. Probably 6k fans is the typical demand for tickets at most duals which is perfect for Rec Hall. Yes, the novelty of a match at BJC (Pitt) or a big time dual (Iowa) will draw many more fans but I would hate to see 6k fans at the BJC. It would look empty at only a third capacity

 

I really like the way they balance the two facilities. However, I have wondered why they don't use a stage platform at Rec Hall. I think it would make it an even better venue.

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I again disagree. I think this was the right spot to have something like this happen. Maybe it's my black and gold glasses. I'm not saying Iowa wanted to lose the matches they did in the fashion they did, just that by having the wrestlers be more tired thru a combo of extra training and travel schedule, while also getting a game opponent who you can count on being well-coached, It creates additional artificial adversity and mental training. The only guy negatively affected long term is Evans and his seeding since that match is going to be a dogfight mo matter what. Iowa needed a lot to go wrong to lose the dual given the matchups, so it's a safe spot.

Seeding messed up for Evans... How?

Big 10's they'll all tangle again and he'll have his chance.

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I thought the match was a great dual meet with a great atmosphere.  Both teams have positives they can take away from the experience.

 

(I think) Gibbons and Johnson got the tie break wrong when they were commentating during the 285 match.  They stated that the tie breaker would look at first take down.  I was under the impression that it was wins per team, then bonus points, then match points totals, and then first take down.  Yes, Iowa got the first take down, and the fact is they scored the most match points by about 5 if Conaway or Beitz were to have snagged a last second take down.

Edited by skikayaker

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I didn't say they need to peak now. They should be peak-ing, as in showing progression towards a peak in about 3-4 weeks that carries them through NCAAs. Instead, it looks like they peaked early vs. Minny and then fizzled today. That's not a good trend, and certainly not reflective of a team just training through a dual given how close it was to what even you call their prior peak. You don't peak every other week or two weeks. We'll see how they fare in the next week or two to get a better read of their trend.

 

What Moore and Burak did out there was just bad all around. Clark has now lost four in a row, so it's not like he was crushing dudes and then just had a bad day. None of that lookex like it was just training through a dual to me. I'm sure Brands has a plan, so my comments are driven by surprise more than an assessment of how they'll do in March or anything else.

I thought Iowa looked flat against Maryland.  Their best performances were obviously at Midlands, Okla St., Minnie and maybe tOSU.  They got it done and won the toss-ups at 125/197 and despite Clark losing to DJD who anyone can lose to if they're not prepared for the grip & dump.  Peaking too early is entirely possible.  It's happened in sports for as long as there has been competition.

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Every year I point out that there is no such thing as "peaking".  It is a tautology.  Those that do well are said to have peaked, with peaking defined as those who perform at their best. 

If you really believe that there is such a thing as "peaking" then list the wrestlers who are peaking before the tournament starts, not afterwards. 

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peaking has to do with your physical training. your body cannot improve and compete at its best at the same time. you sometimes train through competitions to prepare yourself better for a later date. to peak you follow a hard training cycle with rest leading up to a competition. you can't sustain that type of training for too long of a period and only shoot to attain it a few times a year. there is such a thing....

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Every year I point out that there is no such thing as "peaking".  It is a tautology.  Those that do well are said to have peaked, with peaking defined as those who perform at their best. 

If you really believe that there is such a thing as "peaking" then list the wrestlers who are peaking before the tournament starts, not afterwards. 

 

 

You are wrong about this. There absoluitely is "peaking" in training. There is a ton of science that goes into it. The fact that us fans can't identify in advance which wrestlers have done the best job of peaking has nothing to do with the science of training for peak performance. 

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Every year I point out that there is no such thing as "peaking".  It is a tautology.  Those that do well are said to have peaked, with peaking defined as those who perform at their best. 

If you really believe that there is such a thing as "peaking" then list the wrestlers who are peaking before the tournament starts, not afterwards. 

yup. it's the same principle as being "clutch". if there was "science" to it you'd be able predict future events based on observable and measurable data. 

 

 

There is a ton of science that goes into it. 

ok yes please explain me this "science" you say

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yup. it's the same principle as being "clutch". if there was "science" to it you'd be able predict future events based on observable and measurable data. 

 

 

ok yes please explain me this "science" you say

 

 

I'll go one better. I'll let NYC and Boston Marathon Champion Meb Keflezighi explain it. 

 

http://www.runnersworld.com/boston-marathon/how-meb-keflezighi-trained-to-win-the-boston-marathon?page=single

 

You may or may not understand it, you may not want to understand it, or you may simply claim it all junk science, but your answer is in the above link and thousands of other documents on this subject. 

 

Here is another one. 

 

http://www.humankinetics.com/products/all-products/tapering-and-peaking-for-optimal-performance

Edited by TBar1977

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