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I wouldn't expect a minnesota fan to understand peaking....

That's funny, but like the dedicated thread you started on this topic, you are aren't always accurate. Last year the Gophers vastly exceeded their seeds and peaked to almost knock off PSU.

 

But I'd give coaching as much credit to that as physically peaking.

Edited by headshuck

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"Peaking" is often used in sports journalism when the writer has nothing intelligent to say but needs filler.  The winner has "peaked at the right time".  The team is on a winning streak and is "peaking for the playoffs".  etc, etc

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That's funny, but like the dedicated thread you started on this topic, you are aren't always accurate. Last year the Gophers vastly exceeded their seeds and peaked to almost knock off PSU.

 

But I'd give coaching as much credit to that as physically peaking.

I wouldn't have thought that but I probably didn't pay as much attention after the first day. Honestly i pal around with some big mind haters. 

 

But did they? Whats the breakdown? I should know sense i talk about it but i don't.

Edited by hammerlockthree

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"Peaking" is often used in sports journalism when the writer has nothing intelligent to say but needs filler. The winner has "peaked at the right time". The team is on a winning streak and is "peaking for the playoffs". etc, etc

It's also used by coaches such as Dan Gable, Zeke Jones and countless others to prepare wrestling teams to be at their physical best come tournament time. I have listened to both Gable and Jones talk about planning their practices with periodization in mind. But what do they know.

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I did a quick once over on minny from last year. emphasis on the quick, and I made up a scoring system on the fly.

 

125 DNQ

133 8th/5th +3

141 6th DNP 0

149 2nd DNP -7

157 9th/2th 0

165 15th/7th +8

174 6th/3rd +11

184 7th/5th +13

197 4th/3rd +14

285 1st/2nd +13

 

You were right, I had no idea Minny outperformed last year. They must be great at peaking! 

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technically SCOTUS Justice Potter was referring to obscenity but yes, exactly my point. you only know when someone has peaked after you see them peak. 

 

so after the NCAA tournament we can look at the results and see who peaked. great, we all agree that it is real in that respect. 

 

No, LkwdSteve is correct.  While the case involved a state obscenity law, Justice Potter was indeed referring to pornography, and said so explicitly.   Potter stated that "under the First and Fourteenth Amendments criminal laws in this area are constitutionally limited to hard core pornography.  I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced withing that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so.  But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."

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yeah im not denying the existence of training. every college team is training on the same schedule. what does one team or wrestler do that allows them to peak better than other teams or wrestlers?

if you think every college team is training on the same schedule you are greatly misguided.

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now we're talking two different kinds of things. one is peaking as it pertains to specific training methods, and the other is the unscientific term used to explain wrestling performances after they occur. 

 

forgive me if you only had the former in mind during this discussion. 

Seemed pretty clear that Tbar was talking about training methods since he used the term science. Not sure that the first poster might have been talking about the latter but you quoted and commented on Tbar. That's what I was referring to.

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No, LkwdSteve is correct.  While the case involved a state obscenity law, Justice Potter was indeed referring to pornography, and said so explicitly.   Potter stated that "under the First and Fourteenth Amendments criminal laws in this area are constitutionally limited to hard core pornography.  I shall not today attempt further to define the kinds of material I understand to be embraced withing that shorthand description; and perhaps I could never succeed in intelligibly doing so.  But I know it when I see it, and the motion picture involved in this case is not that."

youre right, shouldnt have picked that nit. i knew it as an obscenity case but didn't look up the exact quote. well researched!

 

 

if you think every college team is training on the same schedule you are greatly misguided.

training for the same schedule is what i should have said. they all have to wrestles the NCAA tournament on the same weekend.

 

anyway, we can all agree that we can look up results after the fact and determine who peaked. yawn. please let me know when someone wants to go on record and point out someone who is peaking before the results comes in. 

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anyway, we can all agree that we can look up results after the fact and determine who peaked. yawn. please let me know when someone wants to go on record and point out someone who is peaking before the results comes in. 

 

 

So because people can't see the future, then training for peak performance doesn't exist? 

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Carl Fronhofer wrote a great article on his training after his senior year. After a very brief search I wasn't able to find it. The short version is that he did it the coaches way and didn't have success the first 3 years, so he was doing it his way. Cut out lifting the last month of the season, went 3on-3off, wasn't cutting as much weight his senior year, listened to his body and individualized his workouts. It was pretty eye opening for me because my experience was everyone getting the same training for the most part, which is really stupid when you think about it. Fronhofer had his body in peak physical condition and it allowed him to compete well on the mat. When you feel good, I am sure you have confidence and are mentally in a good state to compete.

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I think your reference to Fronhofer brings up a great point.  What works for one, may not work for all and I think it is very hard to point to any coach who has all his wrestlers peaking at the same point.  I find it hard to believe there is a "science" to prove this.  I think mental attitude, weight control, maintaining strength, and conditioning are just a few of the essentials in order to "peak".  I think it is more about performing at the NCAA's than it is about "peaking" at the right time.  Now, I do think that you can overtrain which can lead to mental burnout, fatigue, and other issues which might not be optimal when it comes to March.

 

A few examples where I think you just look at the individuals:

Dake vs Molinaro:  at Scuffle Dake looked tired and Molinaro kept it very competitive because of better conditioning.  Dake's conditioning was suspect early in the season but it never affected him in March.  Was it coaching genius or Dake just being much better conditioned?

 

Caldwell vs Metcalf:  Metcalf beats him like a dog and Caldwell gassed badly.  Several months later it was a different Caldwell.  Did Metcalf not "peak" at the right time or was Caldwell just in better shape and better that day?

 

Rick Bonomo:  Used to spend most of the winter deer-hunting and always seemed to peak at the right time?

 

Paul Keysaw:  Rarely went live, didn't run or lift weights but instead trained in a swimming pool and beat Randy Couture in the NCAA Finals.

 

How does a coach enable all his athletes to "peak" at the right time?

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"Cheap cartoons are what stupid people use to rape children" -Abraham Lincoln 

yes, very good, im sure we all remember the Gettysburg Address. 

 

so maybe i went about explaining my position poorly. yes peak performance exists. it is real. i will not contest that point at all. 

 

but the concept of a wrestler or team "peaking" in march is like talking about someone's grit, or passion, or toughness, or attitude. you can't measure it, you can't use it to predict future performance and it only gets talked about after someone achieves success. 

 

so a guy can set his training schedule and use the scientific method to make sure he is "peaking" in march, and then he'll get upset twice, 0-2 out of the tournament and absolutely no one will say that he peaked after the tournament is over. even though athletically he could have been at the tippy top of his game. 

 

so again, yes, peaking is real, super real, the realest. let it not be said that i ever denied the exist of peaking.

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The best coaches individualize training for a peak WHILE also steering the team in a general direction in terms of periodization. They train their athletes as a team to accomplish general training results and then individualize the programs to ensure optimal performance when it matters most. 

 

Gable is a perfect example of this. I remember listening to many interviews as well as reading A Season on the Mat and being impressed with the way he was able to steer an entire squad to peak performance so consistently. Throughout his interviews, some available on Flo, he gives examples of different ways he modified or allowed his athletes to modify their training before a big competition. Some examples I recall:

 

* The Steiners were practically impossible to overtrain. They were basically one big lung with arms and legs, doing two and three-a-days throughout but never burning out. They had huge aerobic capacities, so he would let them go harder than the rest of the team, occasionally reining them in. 

* He usually did not do much live wrestling and was careful to match up his starting lineup with "easier" workout partners the day or two before a big event, but there were exceptions. Mark Ironside could go hard right up to a competition and get beat up and still be totally fine.

* McIlravy hated running, and he was allowed to supplement his conditioning in the room with the Aerodyne. But the Brands hated running too and they were made to run early in the mornings.

 

Gable talked about using the offseason to build strength and a solid aerobic base, then right around Christmas break, when there wasn't a ton of competition, he would have a period of brutal anaerobically focused workouts to get his team in "wrestling shape", etc. He definitely had a March peak in mind for the team in general as he designed his workouts for the entire season. What separated him as a coach (among many things) was his ability to get the most out of every athlete on his team by recognizing individual differences and adjusting his approach to them.

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