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I have a great rule change!!!!

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Only start riding time when the top wrestler has earned the position.  If the bottom wrestler chooses down then no riding time.  Also, allow the top wrestler to free release when they have earned top position.  This will take away the ride to get extra point and might make the top guys more aggressive or at the very least not reward them for hanging on top!!

 

Thoughts????

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Was having a conversation with someone last week about riding time and the same thought came up was to get the RT point you should need to earn a NF2 or NF3 anytime in the match to get the RT point.

 

It's easy enough.

 

The precedent is already there for team score for TF as to whether you get 4 team points or 5 team points for a TF.

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I like the idea of "earning" the position prior to RT.  I am not a fan of having to get back points prior to RT.  One of the biggest reasons for RT is to reward someone for a punishing, controlling ride WITHOUT being able to get back points.  Now, I would like for either the top or bottom wrestler to gain a choice of position if either the top or bottom man were called for stalling.  I also wouldn't have an issue with erasing or a time reduction of RT if you are called for stalling while in the Top Position.

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I think an easy solution would be to use riding time only as a tiebreaker; that is, if a match is tied at the end or regulation, you would declare a winner if one of the two wrestlers has accumulated a one minute advantage.  But, you would not use riding time to create a tie that forces overtime, or to turn a regular decision into a major or a major into a TF.  Think of it as similar to how the check mark used to be applied in international judo and taekwondo.

 

Also, I thought Pat Milkovich has some great thoughts on this board on how to improve mat wrestling by putting the onus on the bottom/defensive wrestler to be more aggressive in improving his position.

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I am a big fan of folkstyle.  I don't want to see major changes.  The only change I really would like to see is the elimination of riding time.  Otherwise I think the style is working the way it always has worked.  I don't see more stalling today than I remember when I was wrestling in the early 90s, nor do I see more fleeing the mat.  I see more funk, the technique has advanced and I see better athletes today, but the way the matches are wrestled looks pretty much the same to me.  

 

I think many fans think it was more exciting in their day because they were emotionally invested in the outcomes competing themselves or watching teammates and/or friends compete.  The action is really pretty similar though.  For every exciting match(s), there were always a couple of boring ones.  That is how it is in every sport though.  No sport provides nonstop excitement.  I watch football every Sunday but lots of the games are pretty boring.  I tune in for those exciting ones!  For every great MMA matchup, I watch a few guys looking like they are sparring instead of seizing the moment.  Everyone can't shine everyday and no amount of fine tuning of the rules will make that happen...   

 

I also think fans of other styles get more frustrated by things like going out of bounds.  Fans of folkstyle who don't follow international styles seems much less bothered by this.

 

I see tons of complaining here in the forums but the wrestling I have watched this season has been pretty exciting.  I can't wait for nationals!!   

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I think an easy solution would be to use riding time only as a tiebreaker; that is, if a match is tied at the end or regulation, you would declare a winner if one of the two wrestlers has accumulated a one minute advantage.  But, you would not use riding time to create a tie that forces overtime, or to turn a regular decision into a major or a major into a TF.  Think of it as similar to how the check mark used to be applied in international judo and taekwondo.

 

Also, I thought Pat Milkovich has some great thoughts on this board on how to improve mat wrestling by putting the onus on the bottom/defensive wrestler to be more aggressive in improving his position.

I was confused until you brought clarity with the bolded part. I'm sure it made things easier to understand for all of us.

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I don't know.  The issue is to force the action on the mat without any of the piddling about whether a ride is a stall or not.

 

No NF, no RT.  Score as shown.  It's a one second evaluation.  Even a rocket scientist could figure it out.

 

I'd be curious to see how many matches are won or pushed into OT based on the RT point and no NFs.

 

Simple rule which forces wrestlers to make a decision.  If a guy needs that point to win he is going to get aggressive to turn the bottom man, which should open things up for the bottom man.

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It's much simpler than that. Just make it so you only get a RT point if you get backs or stalling point on bottom man.

And you lose it if you're called for stalling.

 

(The obvious problem is the official becomes more of match instead of the wrestlers.)

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It's much simpler than that. Just make it so you only get a RT point if you get backs or stalling point on bottom man.

Not a bad idea.  Even simpler:  Eliminate the stall warning by giving a point at the first stalling call.  Add elimination of any riding time advantage as well as another point on the second call.  And make the third stalling call an automatic DQ.  This would have the added benefit of weeding out the chickens**t officials who either don't know the rules well enough to be consistent or are simply too intimidated to enforce them.

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Riding time is a holdover from a previous era when it was thought that this would be a greater incentive to pin by rewarding control. When I wrestled it was 2pts for 2 net minutes. But as we can see it didn't make any positive difference then or now. I think high school got rid of it since, at that level, there's enough mistakes and plenty of scoring that RT isn't needed like it is in college where you have more parity. Also it's sort of a NCAA trademark.

 

If NCAA keeps RT I agree it should be like the superior tech fall requiring a NF. I also think it should be 2 pts. for 1 minute RT with the NF. That way you get even more incentive to ride and turn and to learn to ride and turn and... to escape. Historically, that was whole the idea behind RT. It didn't/doesn't work. Maybe the NF is the missing component. Who knows. Then again the reaction of wrestlers may be to avoid it, taking neutral. My guess, mostly, not always, the ones who'll take top will be the ones who are good at turning/pinning and won't waste fan's time and money. So at best you get a natural separation and less fakery/stalling. Seems like a win-win to me.

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My major qualm is the escape point. I LOATHE the escape point. Keeps guys in matches who dont deserve to be. Get spanked in the first period 3 takedowns to none and still only be down 6-3 because you got cut 3 times after being dominated......ludicrous. I would like to see the guy who earns the td get some sort of choice to either cut his opponent for "free" or go ahead and try to ride. Obviously there are issues with that and it would have to be tweaked but....OR do away with the RT point and make it so the guy who gets the td has to hold opponent down sayyy 25 seconds to earn the choice of letting him up without awarding an escape point. That way it awards the ride as well as gets the bottom man an incentive to get his ass up quick or not at all. Idk, I see issues with that as well. I just hate the escape point.

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As long as we're wrestling folkstyle, you can't get rid of the escape point. It is essential to the concept of control. Also, it would really incentivize the TD - cut - TD - cut - TD style of wrestling, which effectively eliminates mat wrestling. If we're going to get rid of mat wrestling, fine, but if we're going to keep it, which I think we should, it needs to be an essential part of a wrestling match.

 

What I would like to see to make neutral more exciting is a 3-point TD for exposure. This would make neutral more interesting and increase pins and back points as more wrestlers practice techniques that take opponents to their backs.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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As long as we're wrestling folkstyle, you can't get rid of the escape points.

Ok, how about implementing 1/2 points then? Instead of getting a full point for an escape, you get .5 point. Then it would be 6-1.5 after the first period in my scenerio above. Sounds more fair than 6-3 IMO

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Less rules, not more.  Simpler, not more complicated.

 

1. Do away with riding time.  This could be a disincentive to stall-riding (or riding with no intention or attempt to turn the opponent). = less stalling = good

 

2. Incorporate the FS pushout.  This will force wrestlers to battle to stay in the center of the mat.  Battling = more action = less stalling = good

 

Also the less subjective calls we put in the officials hands (stalling), the better.  I'd rather see less stall calls (subjective) in favor of more push-outs points (objective). 

 

HS wrestling is halfway there (no riding time) and is just as exciting, if not more than the College rules.  FS has guys fighting to stay in the middle of the mat, and is more exciting to watch than it has been in 20+ years.   These changes are easy and DO NOT, imo, change the nature of folkstyle.

Edited by WRfan1

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