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Rick's rant

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LkwdSteve,

 

Actually nearly no one did until AFTER they won it all.  Losing 2 QB's didn't help............

That just made room for a REAL quarterback to take the reins.

 

So what is the vegas line on today's duals? Will rules be made on coaches having to  declare who will be OUT, vs. questionable, vs. probable?

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 at a minimum, it would make for a more interesting event for current fans.

IMO....this is MORE than bull chit.

If the way we determine the team championship becomes national duals... my yearly trips to "nationals" ends.

IF the duals were such a good idea (for determining a champion) Duals would be much better attended ALREADY. If those touting the change get their way and it backfires.............. wrestling would truly be dead.

I go to other meets besides nationals (ALL are poorly attended). But there is only ONE meet that has the feel of Nationals....and that is the individual nationals. I am NOT in favor of playing russian roulette and HOPING it works out.

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IMO....this is MORE than bull chit.

If the way we determine the team championship becomes national duals... my yearly trips to "nationals" ends.

IF the duals were such a good idea (for determining a champion) Duals would be much better attended ALREADY. If those touting the change get their way and it backfires.............. wrestling would truly be dead.

I go to other meets besides nationals (ALL are poorly attended). But there is only ONE meet that has the feel of Nationals....and that is the individual nationals. I am NOT in favor of playing russian roulette and HOPING it works out.

considering a home rutgers dual out drew the 2nd biggest tournament of the year on the same day, i dont think we have to worry about fans staying away because they prefer tournies over duals. 

 

but its not about butts in the seats, its eyeballs on the screen. wrestling needs more national exposure and media coverage, and its not going to get it without changing. im far more worries about staying the course than a potential backfiring. as long as the individual tournament is still held wrestlers will compete and fans will care. 

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But this comment illustrates what so many people fail to understand - if you have a true dual championship you are not eliminating ANY team from the team race - the race will become the entire dual season, and every dual will matter.

 

As it stands now, the season is just two weekends in March - everything else leading up is just pre-season, you don't even need to compete (i.e., see Jesse Delgado).

redblades, it's people like you that truly don't get it. Fans won't view the regular season duals any differently. The teams that have good support will continue to have good attendance and the ones that don't, won't. Winning is always the best (only?) method to increase attendance and that takes full scholarships, quality facilities and the payroll to employ a good coaching staff.  Unfortunately many schools aren't willing to make that commitment and in there lies the problem. Look at MSU as Exhibit "A" They have the monetary resources to build a very good program but they could care less about the sport. That attitude has nothing to do with how the championship is decided.

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redblades, it's people like you that truly don't get it.

redblades i think you get it! :)

 

Winning is always the best (only?) method to increase attendance

i'd agree, pretty much the only way. but now we're back on the parity issue, which will not be affected by a change in the way the team trophy is determined. only more money and resources from the schools, as you say. so we agree :)

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And honestly no, I don't see every team wanting to join if you call it the team title. Individual achievement is far more important.

 

Please name the AD or University President that would allow their wrestling program to not attend a NCAA team championship to focus on an individual becoming an All-American.

 

If the team title is crowned in some other way you can bet every coach will change gears and be focused on it.

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Only with college wrestling would the fact that upsets could happen be shown as a problem. Do you hear anybody complain during March madness one of these "Cinderella teams" goes on a run? Or the best team doesn't win the title? Did anybody feed Ohio State was the best college football team this year? We're the New York Giants football team last two times they won the Super Bowl? Does the best golfer win every tournament? Variance and upsets are a GOOD thing in sports.

 

 

 

That's the point. Teams are already eliminated from the team race on Day 1 of the season now. But if the regular season determined which teams got to compete for the team title, that might change. Sure, maybe nothing changes...but we don't know. We do know for certain that nothing is changing in the current format....it's getting worse.

Vak, the author implied that Penn State pulling off the upset and  winning a championship with 3 losses would be bad for wrestling so I simply pointed out that it's easier to upset a team in a dual then in a tournament setting. I think that point was proved out today. I personally don't mind the occasional upset however losing 2 of the top 4 teams in the quarters may not be a good thing for viewership purposes. 

Edited by Flying-Tiger

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Tiger, I don't think National Duals deciding the NCAA team championship is the way to go, but the top teams losing in early rounds of March Madness doesn't seem to affect their ratings. Granted, their fanbases are more balanced than ours are, I would say an Iowa or Penn State going out early would hurt viewership, but I don't think you can say, blanketly, that two of the top four teams losing in the quarters is a bad thing...

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SHP - If you're going to use regular season metrics to determine post season metrics and compare it to basketball then any year Kentucky loses early would be a big hit to the ratings followed by Duke, Syracuse, North Carolina, and Michigan State. However those teams have lost early (or failed to qualify) and the fans still tune in for the games (often to cheer against their rivals).

 

(Posted via mobile while waiting for someone to win this womens bball game)

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redblades, it's people like you that truly don't get it. Fans won't view the regular season duals any differently. The teams that have good support will continue to have good attendance and the ones that don't, won't. Winning is always the best (only?) method to increase attendance and that takes full scholarships, quality facilities and the payroll to employ a good coaching staff.  Unfortunately many schools aren't willing to make that commitment and in there lies the problem. Look at MSU as Exhibit "A" They have the monetary resources to build a very good program but they could care less about the sport. That attitude has nothing to do with how the championship is decided.

WOW......I agree completely. These are things fans NEED to work toward.

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it doesnt matter how the championship is determined, parity won't change. teams with 2 wrestlers in the ncaa tournament do not care about the team race they care about those 2 wrestlers.

I'm not sure this completely accurate.  I recall reading an article about Mark Cody when he was coaching American University (I'm paraphrasing).  They were at the NCAA's in Philly and the university president came to watch on Friday or something and American was plastered all over the leaderboard in the top 5 or close to it.  The president was duly impressed and if I recall, increased funding for their scholarships which Cody was always fighting for.  American had no prayer of remaining in the top 5 but when their president came through they were and he liked seeing his university in the hunt.

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So, even if the NCAA said they would institute a legitimate DUAL MEET Champion,

you'd be against it??

I would. The NCAA already said there will only be one NCAA team Champion - the NCAA won't allow a Dual Team Champ and a Tourney Team Champ.

 

If Duals determine the NCAA champ the sport will be meaningless for all but 5 or 6 schools - and just another reason for penny pinching ADs to drop the sport and redirect more money in the the runaway budgets of Football and Men's BB.  It will happen, just give them a reason. 

Edited by WRfan1

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I would. They've already said their will only be one NCAA team Champion - the NCAA won't allow a Dual Team Champ and a Tourney Team Champ.

 

If Duals determine the NCAA champ the sport will be meaningless for all but 5 or 6 schools - and just another reason for penny pinching ADs to drop the sport and redirect more money in the the runaway budgets of Football and Men's BB.  It will happen, just give them a reason.

That is not true. Not even a little bit.

 

Virginia Tech is not winning a national title.

Lehigh is not winning a national title.

 

 

However, you put these teams in a dual against top teams and you can get some very exciting contests that can excite their alumni, fans, donors, and administrators.

 

You tell Virginia Tech fans that the team is wrestling Penn State in the Dual Championship with an NCAA title on the line and they will be tuned in. If it is anything like the meeting they had earlier in the year it will be exciting for the fans. Lehigh knocking off Ohio State is exciting for fans.

 

There are so many more exciting dynamics in duals.

 

I can get parents of youth wrestler to watch duals. They enjoy them. I can get ex-high school wrestlers to watch duals. They enjoy them. I can not get either group to watch tournaments. Neither group could name more than a few wrestlers but they could all tell you which team they cheer for. It takes too much time to learn all the athletes names. Just let them cheer blindly for a team.

 

People have complained about Iowa and Penn State fans over the years about how they don't know anything about athletes outside their programs as if it is a bad thing. That is how every college sport operates. The majority of fans cheer for a team and will do it blindly. I mean, I even do it. I am a Chicago Cubs fan for the simple reason that they played day games (due to not having lights at Wrigley field) so as a kid I was able to watch their games while I had to go to bed before the night games and could never watch other teams play.

 

Tournaments are great but they are not what wrestling needs to flourish in a changing landscape.

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The lehigh fans are over the moon after beating tOSU.

 

Too bad the rude awakening Cornell will give them tomorrow.

That is why I like the breaks between matches. I don't like multiple duals in one day for that very reason. Give time to celebrate and think about the win while giving media time to report it. When you run one dual right after the other by the time the good news starts to reach people the following event's results could burst the bubble.

 

Lehigh fans should be celebrating. That was a big win!

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Dual meets are our 1 and ONLY way to increase viewership and, even more importantly, garner more casual fans.  To make this happen, you HAVE TO make Duals RELEVANT.  

Really?  We can't create made for TV tournaments that invite schools that are historical powers, regional rivals, etc?  That could be just as compelling.

We can put people on the moon, but the only way  to increase wrestling viewership is duals?  Sorry, but I'm not buying that.

 

Along those lines, it would help if we modified tournment scoring.   Simply give points for placing, some lesser amount for bonus, etc., and that it.  That would make it so much easier to follow.

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I'm not sure this completely accurate.  I recall reading an article about Mark Cody when he was coaching American University (I'm paraphrasing).  They were at the NCAA's in Philly and the university president came to watch on Friday or something and American was plastered all over the leaderboard in the top 5 or close to it.  The president was duly impressed and if I recall, increased funding for their scholarships which Cody was always fighting for.  American had no prayer of remaining in the top 5 but when their president came through they were and he liked seeing his university in the hunt.

its completely accurate. good story but it would also happen to a great dual meet team who made the quarters but otherwise would have nothing but a few 0-BBQs. 

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Really?  We can't create made for TV tournaments that invite schools that are historical powers, regional rivals, etc?  That could be just as compelling.

We can put people on the moon, but the only way  to increase wrestling viewership is duals?  Sorry, but I'm not buying that.

 

Along those lines, it would help if we modified tournment scoring.   Simply give points for placing, some lesser amount for bonus, etc., and that it.  That would make it so much easier to follow.

no tournaments suck for fans and suck for tv i cant stand watching the split screen for the semis on espn

 

duals perfect for tv

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I don't think we should change the individual tournament. The NCAA and NWCA need to build and promote the dual tournament first. Let the dual tournament EARN its place. The event needs the bugs worked out. They need to properly promote the event to the same level as the NCAA individual tournament. Promoters of the dual tournament are trying to hype the dual event on the back of the individual tournament. Again, the event needs promoted and hyped on its own merit to earn its importance and then the NCAA and NWCA can look at adding points to teams for individual tournament or whatever.

Edited by jstock

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