Should Gilman be punished further?

[Perry 950]

Nice overview tbar. Like I said earlier, if you cant handle the pressures of carver don't ref there. It was absolutely ridiculous.

[Serial_Thriller 77]

What I saw was that on balance Missouri was more aggressive than Iowa, which bears itself out in the number of take downs. What I did not see was Iowa wrestlers taking even half baked shots. All they did was push, plod, push, plod, push, plod. That is sumo wrestling, not folk style wrestling. 

 

When Clark was riding the Missouri bottom man was stalling according to Shiels who nhit him over and over and over again for stalling while Clark basically did nothing on top. That's fine if that is how you are going to call the whole dual, but it isn't how he called the rest of the dual. Mayes destroyed Jeva. Rode him for nearly 2 and half minutes. Did they call Jeva for stalling? Nope. They did call Mayes for stalling, though, albeit on his feet. They warned him for not making a mat return despite the fact they never started a count. That was a total joke. Mayes did all the work in that match. 

 

Synon got stall pointed.

 

Mayes got stall warned.

 

Houdashelt owned Sorenson, yet Houdashelt got stall pointed. 

 

LaValley got an instant count when he dropped his left hand to Kelly's ankle. OK, so why didn't Gilman get an instant count for doing the same thing? 

 

Miklus is riding Meyer like a mule late in the 3rd. Meyer gets off his knee for 1 second, literally, and Miklus got warned after 1 friggin second. No starting a 5 count. Nothing. WARNING RED! Why? 

 

Then you have the relatively un athletic Burak being awarded a point against the relative way too athletic for him J'Den Cox. How the hell does that happen? He was never going to get Cox down. And don't tell me Cox was stalling, because that is bullcrap. But they have to bail the slow plodding Iowa guy out. The only reason people aren't more upset about all this is that J'Den pounded him 5 seconds later which proves the point that if he had to take Burak down he could have. 

 

Seems to me the criteria for getting warned, penalized or otherwise wrongly officiated (Waters) was that the Missouri wrestler had the gumption to be beating the Iowa wrestler, since all 6 Missou guys who were ahead got warned, penalized, or flat out wrong called.

 

No Iowa wrestler who was leading was similarly penalized. 

Clark's guy made no attempt to get off of his stomach. He was spending all of his energy trying to get his arms away from Clark. If you cannot even attempt to get to a base, that's stalling.

 

As far as Jeva, he was always moving forward into Mayes and getting taken down and released a little bit later. He had no time to mount an offense.

 

Like I said, neither team was on fire, but if you are always backing up, a ref is going to hit ya. In Mayes case, he could have taken all the stalls calls he wanted, he still was going to out point Jeva....

[WildTurkey44 321]

Jeva is so frustrating to watch. He needed to circle and move his feet side to side. Mayes was licking his chops when Jeva just came straight at him over and over. Bad wrestling strategy by Jeva. Like usual

Edited February 24, 2015 by WildTurkey44

[VakAttack 1,939]

Dziewa did, in fact, get warned for stalling while trailing.  It happened in the third period in the neutral position.

[HurricaneWrestling 1,121]

 

As far as Jeva, he was always moving forward into Mayes and getting taken down and released a little bit later. He had no time to mount an offense.

 

 

No, he wasn't.  Jeva was backing away when Mayes hit his first TD of the match.  In fact, Mayes barely had his toes in bounds.

 

That said, I'd agree with you that Jeva moved forwards more than Mayes.  However, I wouldn't necessarily equate that with being offensive. And, apparently, neither did the ref.  If you'll recall, about half way through the 3rd period, as Shiels was warning Jeva for stalling, he even yelled out that Mayes was the one taking the shots.

[VakAttack 1,939]

Mayes wasn't stalling.  Backing up to set someone up for a shot is a valid, non-stalling offensive strategy.  Jesse Delgado used to do that.  That said, if someone backs up from a guy pushing into him with no offensive shot and eventually backs out of bounds, he should definitely be called for stalling.

[concerned_texas_coach 0]

This poll and thread are insane.  Do people honestly want Gilman kicked out of post season wrestling?  What loon would say "yes"?

[teach 142]

What would he be kicked out for?   A bad double leg after the whistle, or for getting slammed?

[Perry 950]

What would he be kicked out for?   A bad double leg after the whistle, or for getting slammed?

heh

[concerned_texas_coach 0]

What would he be kicked out for?   A bad double leg after the whistle, or for getting slammed?

Hey, I'm not the dude that started this poll or any of the others that voted "yes".  Maybe most of the "yes" voters want all the really tough opponents that are not on their team to be ommitted from competing.  Last I heard, wrestling in rough.

[littlethadd 22]

Hey, I'm not the dude that started this poll or any of the others that voted "yes".  Maybe most of the "yes" voters want all the really tough opponents that are not on their team to be ommitted from competing.  Last I heard, wrestling in rough.

Wrestling tough and wrestling to injure your opponent are two very very different things...

[jerbufoon 40]

Ok, after reviewing everyones thoughts on this topic, I think the right thing todo is punish Gilman for the blatant attempt at trying to injure another wrestler. If you dont make an example out of him, someone will eventually get seriously hurt. 

[HuskyHero133 51]

Mayes wasn't stalling.  Backing up to set someone up for a shot is a valid, non-stalling offensive strategy.  Jesse Delgado used to do that.  That said, if someone backs up from a guy pushing into him with no offensive shot and eventually backs out of bounds, he should definitely be called for stalling.

 

Count how many shots each person took in that match (or meet for that matter) and tell me who should have gotten the stalling calls.

[VakAttack 1,939]

Mayes wasn't stalling. How much more clear can I be? Dziewa was.

[Serial_Thriller 77]

Jeva was NOT stalling. He was always moving and getting taken down. And yes, he was offensive. Offensive smelling.

[silver 7]

I thought the offical was just trying to get Waters to stop wrestling, whistle blown, by clubbing him on his head.

[HuskyHero133 51]

Mayes wasn't stalling. How much more clear can I be? Dziewa was.

 

 

And it was Mayes who got hit for stalling wasn't it? but I was also talking about in the whole meet.  There seemed to be a lot more offense coming out of Missouri but all the stalling calls still went against them. 

[VakAttack 1,939]

And it was Mayes who got hit for stalling wasn't it? but I was also talking about in the whole meet. There seemed to be a lot more offense coming out of Missouri but all the stalling calls still went against them.

Mayes was hit for stslling during an attempt to ride out the first period. Dziewa was hit for stalling in the third period woke trailing by a large margin in Neutral.

[TBar1977 3,176]

Mayes was hit for stslling during an attempt to ride out the first period. Dziewa was hit for stalling in the third period woke trailing by a large margin in Neutral.

 

 

Virtually every Missou wrestler who was winning got hit with stalling, plus Synon got hit for stalling like 3x. The only Iowa guy hit for stalling was Jeva, but he only got warned 1x. Wonder why he did not get hit with another warning? Had that happened he'd have been majored. 

[concerned_texas_coach 0]

Wrestling tough and wrestling to injure your opponent are two very very different things...

So, you have determined without doubt that Gilman intended to injure Waters.  You must specialize in telepathy.  Impressive.  And to think, the official thought Waters was the culprit.  So we can ruin Gilman's wrestling season based upon your amazing skills.  Thank you.

[VakAttack 1,939]

Virtually every Missou wrestler who was winning got hit with stalling, plus Synon got hit for stalling like 3x. The only Iowa guy hit for stalling was Jeva, but he only got warned 1x. Wonder why he did not get hit with another warning? Had that happened he'd have been majored. 

 

Which Iowa wrestler did you want warned for stalling?

[TBar1977 3,176]

Which Iowa wrestler did you want warned for stalling?

 

 

My problem isn't that the Iowa wrestlers were not warned or pointed, it was the over use of stalling against the Missou wrestlers. Missou was far more aggressive, yet it was their guys that got almost all of the stalling calls against them. It is EASY to look at that result and say the ref screwed up. Everyone seems to understand this except the Iowa fans, the Iowa coaching staff, and the slow plodding Iowa wrestlers who lacked the athletic ability or intensity to take the Missou guys down. . 

[VakAttack 1,939]

Went ahead and broke this down since it's being complained about.  I used Trackwrestling to help me tally these up.

 

125: Gilman was called for stalling in the second period.  Waters was not ever called for stalling.

 

133: Synon was called for stalling three times.  And he was.  Clark was never called.

 

141: Mayes was warned for stalling while trying to ride out a period and not returning Dziewa despite warnings.  Dziewa was warned for stalling while in neutral and trailing by a large margin.

 

149:  Houdashelt was warned for stalling twice.  Once while riding in the second, when he kept repeatedly pushing Sorenson off the mat as Sorenson tried to escape, once with 5 seconds left when he was just blocking off to end the match.

 

157:  No stall calls.

 

165:  No stall calls

 

174:  No stall calls

 

184:  Miklus was hit for stalling with 5 seconds left as he was blocking off to seal the win.

 

197:  Cox was hit for stalling once while riding and not returning, once in the third which was probably the only truly questionable stall call thusfar.

 

HW:  Mellon was hit with a valid stalling call while in neutral as Telford repeatedly engaged.

 

 

So, you admit that there was nowhere Iowa should have been called, and I've just pointed out stall calls against Mizzou, where there is one (against Cox in the third) that was truly fishy.Where are the grave travesties?

[Customfitch 2]

Jeva was NOT stalling. He was always moving and getting taken down. And yes, he was offensive. Offensive smelling.

 

 

"Your women, I want to buy your women. Sell them to me, sell me your children."

[TBar1977 3,176]

Vak, that officiating was amongst the worst I have ever seen. Seem,s to be an accepted fact outside of your Iowa confines.