The Danger of Gilman's Move

[DDBB 8]

I know that there are already multiple posts addressing the move performed by Gilman today, but what he did was so dangerous that I made an account just to make this post.

 

Several years ago my old team was involved in a close dual meet. One of the wrestlers hit the same move Gilman hit today on Waters. His opponent went limp, sustaining a cervical spine fracture in the process. He was rushed to the hospital for emergent surgery. Fortunately the surgeons were able to operate before he became quadraplegic, and after a long rehab he was able to walk again. Obviously his wrestling days were over, but thank God he can walk and lead a normal life.

 

Wrestling is a relatively safe sport (compared with football, hockey, etc), where the risk for a serious injury such as this is low. There are very few scenarios that can routinely endanger our athletes in this way, but this move is absolutely one of them. The response from the NCAA must be swift and clear. I do think Gilman should be suspended from the next meet, even if it is Big 10 tournament. (And I have grown up as a lifelong Iowa fan... something I will revisit after today).

 

I was a wrestler too, I love to win, and when competing I have also been overagressive at times to get the W. But we have to remember that this is a sport, to be enjoyed, and that winning a wrestling match never justifies endangering your opponent, particularly when the injury could be lifelong.

 

I hope that fans, coaches, Gilman and the NCAA appreciate the absolute and very real danger that Waters was exposed to today and that appropriate action is taken to make it clear to everyone that this reckless move is not tolerated.

[TFBJR 466]

Gilman, Brands, and the ref should all be penalized.  Brands should be fired for bringing our sport into disrepute. He has devolved into an embarrassment.  His act is like a pre-teen trying to show off to the tall kids.  

[hammerlockthree 2,637]

not true at all. 

[madcat11 436]

We legit cannot have a rational discussion about this.  Everyone go back to watching Fox or MSNBC.

[Plasmodium 2,303]

That move is legal in freestyle, so I wouldn't say Gilman/Iowa brought the sport into disrepute  Gilman most definitely shouldn't have done that, but lets not pretend like he shot him while his hands were in the air.

[ironmonkey 157]

Legal move in other forms of grappling.  It is not nearly as dangerous as some posters are making it out to be.  

[oldrules 32]

In the context of Gilman's reputation of being a bit of a punk azz whether deserved or not, and the extra curricular activity during the match, it appears that move had malicious intent. Just because it is a legal move in freestyle does not mean it is a safe one. I don't care for many of the slams that occur in free or greco either. Should he be penalized, not for me to say. Gilman will have a spotlight on him come B1G and NCAA.

[Two_on_one 121]

You can't compare legal/illegal moves in freestyle and folkstyle.  Wrestlers adjust in both styles to stay out of those positions.

 

Take for instance a belly to back throw.  

 

In college where that is an illegal move wrestlers constantly put themselves in that vulnerable freestyle position when they do a stand up from the bottom, but since that particular throw is illegal in HS and college, its not a problem.  

 

In freestyle you do everything possible to stay out of the situation where you are in the belly to back position because you know what is coming next.   

[scribe 1,845]

Nobody in Freestyle would put themselves in water's position.

[Coach_J 2,188]

Original post:  well said.

[oldrules 32]

This match should be used as a teaching tool for officials on controlling matches. Not to humiliate the officials of this particular match but just as way to emphasize safety and not letting wrestler emotions and behavior get out of control.

[BLT 86]

There are all kinds of positions where I am sure over the years some sort of spinal issue has happened to a wrestler. Knowing some of the posters on here are in society without fully functioning brains seems like a lot more danger.

[Plasmodium 2,303]

After Waters put himself in that position - what  exactly did Waters, the officials and everyone else expect Gilman to do?  Wait in an OT period for a stalemate?

[Serial_Thriller 77]

TFBJR- Are you friggin serious?!? Was that a serious post?!?

[Coach_J 2,188]

After Waters put himself in that position - what  exactly did Waters, the officials and everyone else expect Gilman to do?  Wait in an OT period for a stalemate?

Obviously, the official was clueless and had no idea what Gilman was going to do and did not even know what Gilman had done once he did it.  I'm guessing Waters was expecting the official to call a stalemate or issue a stall warning, not get hit with a flagrant foul.  If we follow your logic that Gilman was justified in a gross attempt to hurt his opponent, maybe Gilman might have a small amount of responsibility and shouldn't have let the legs in if he didn't possess a legitimate technique to escape in that situation.  Sorry, but bad officiating doesn't justify a bush league move.

[TBar1977 4,596]

Nobody in Freestyle would put themselves in water's position.

 

 

Bullseye. This is why the move is illegal and dangerous in Folk while still legal in Free. 

Edited February 24, 2015 by TBar1977

[Alwayswrestling 227]

DDBB can you give us the specifics of this match such as the teams and date so we can look up to see if this injury actually happened?

[tbert 563]

Just in from Russian forum "Amerikans are pussies"

[HurricaneWrestling 1,123]

After Waters put himself in that position - what  exactly did Waters, the officials and everyone else expect Gilman to do?  Wait in an OT period for a stalemate?

 

Presuming that he couldn't escape legally, then that would be about his only option.  However, Shiels had already made 3 swipes towards a stalling/stalemate call before Gilman launched Waters.  So, Gilman could have gotten a re-start with 12 seconds still remaining.  (That's presuming Waters wouldn't have returned him to the mat, which seemed unlikley - although he had just done that from basically the same position.)

 

Hypothetically, 12 seconds would be sufficient time for Gilman to tie (or even win) the bout.  He would've been down 4-1, but Waters had scored 3 points in less than 5 seconds at the start of the previous ride-out period (locked hands and reversal call), so all Gilman needed was a similar scenario.

 

It wasn't so much Waters' ride that left Gilman in dire straits as it was his locking hands and giving up a reversal at the start of the first ride-out.  If not for that snafu, the match would've been tied 1-1 at the time Gilman decided to drill Waters.

[headshuck 2,626]

DDBB can you give us the specifics of this match such as the teams and date so we can look up to see if this injury actually happened?

That's what I was thinking.

[KingK0ng 175]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ray_Murphy,_Jr.#Life-changing_injury

[sockobuw 49]

the swipes were for the side headlock. waters released the headlock and the count stopped. gilman should have been penalized, but i hate the potentially dangerous call stopping this situation in college matches. the top guy needs to take his legs out and return him to the mat. these guys can safely wrestle in this situation. the problem comes when the bottom guy does what gilman did. there is a reason this is illegal and everyone is up in arms at the referee blowing the call. had gilman not lost his head he would have been in a good position to get a stall call and away.

 However, Shiels had already made 3 swipes towards a stalling/stalemate call before Gilman launched Waters.  So, Gilman could have gotten a re-start with 12 seconds still remaining.  (That's presuming Waters wouldn't have returned him to the mat, which seemed unlikley - although he had just done that from basically the same position.)

 

 

[TFBJR 466]

Serious as a heart attack.  Brands continues to show no class.  In any sport that has a higher visibility he would be run out of the business for his antics. Name one major college football or basketball coach who continually is trying to fight the opposition and bring focus onto himself?  Name one coach who wouldn't reprimand his own guy for this behavior.  Never mind - you can not.  

 

The guy has jumped the shark and needs to be put out.  His days as a wrestler are over, yet he can't give up the limelight.  It has become all about him and not about teaching young men to behave with class and dignity while vigorously competing.  He is a train wreck. 

[Serial_Thriller 77]

The guy should lose his job?!? Do you even think before you post?!?

[HurricaneWrestling 1,123]

the swipes were for the side headlock. waters released the headlock and the count stopped. gilman should have been penalized, but i hate the potentially dangerous call stopping this situation in college matches. the top guy needs to take his legs out and return him to the mat. these guys can safely wrestle in this situation. the problem comes when the bottom guy does what gilman did. there is a reason this is illegal and everyone is up in arms at the referee blowing the call. had gilman not lost his head he would have been in a good position to get a stall call and away.

 

That makes sense about the swipes as Shiels was definitely looking at the headlock (had to get down on the mat to do so).  So, my interpretation that he was swiping for a stall/stalemate call was incorrect -  although Gilman could have got a stall call as you indicate above.  However, now I'm confused on the rule regarding releasing the headlock.  Was Waters allowed to use the headlock up to a 5-count to try and turn Gilman so he was in near fall criteria?