Who was the slam call on?

[gimpeltf 2,045]

It appears that Shiels intended to signal Gilman for the slam, but got the similar singlet colors confused and mis-signalled his intentions.

 

Not sure I agree with this given the Gibbs slap to the back of Waters' head immediately upon landing.

[Serial_Thriller 77]

Not sure I agree with this given the Gibbs slap to the back of Waters' head immediately upon landing.

No kiddin! He could have paralyzed him!

[tbert 563]

Shane Sparks is not obligated to name anyone or to even to come on here and explain. Not quite sure why he did except to affirm his integrity among some nameless cowards who question it.

 

There is only one person who is responsible for the slam.   Not the ref, not the coach.  Only one person made that decision at that time.

 

The ref called what he saw...a few seconds earlier Waters pulled him over in a like position.  Maybe this played into it.  Pretty sure on the straight on view the ref had.  Watch the video again from straight on view.  Sure if the ref was watching which legs were on the ground,  while watching Waters locked hands, counting to 5,  while watching facial expressions, watching body language of each wrestler and determining who initiated the throw he could of made a better call.  He was, however, left out on an island as the other ref did not assert himself ... or maybe the rules don't allow it...

 

There are however many stupid rules that the community supports that led up to not only this, but also the kicks by McMullen and  Schiller. 

 

I don't need a 5 count to determine if it is stalling, when a guy drops to an ankle and locks around with out immediately working up, its stalling on the first count.    .... if a guy throws in legs and side headlock while the guy is in a tripod or standing its stalling on the first count, not the fifth count.     What the bottom guys option .... lay there and wait for time to run out?

[jammen 336]

I'm certainly not questioning Shane Spark's reporting, I love the guy.  What I would like to know is if anyone has questioned Shiels about the call.  Did he believe that Waters slammed Gilman or did he mis-signal?

[maolsen 94]

It's obvious that waters was just so strong, he hipped in and pulled Gilman into the air making the slam happen. But in all seriousness, this was extremely dangerous and Gilman should be punished imo.

[fatlaz 32]

I did some investigating and found an “Iowa Interpretation” that covers this situation. It’s not in the rule book, but it’s an interpretation used in Iowa. (In Missouri we used to have a Leg Riding or Head and Arm Interpretation.)  So Gilman was called for the slam, but Waters was called for an illegal move according to the Iowa Interpretation.  Art. 5 explains the reversal.

Sec. 7 Art 4.:
a. If in the sudden victory 30 second tiebreaker period wrestler “A” is in the advantage position and in the judgment of the referee appears to be able to ride out wrestler “I” in the defensive position, a visual count shall be started by the referee. If the count reaches 5 seconds, wrestler “A” will be called for stalling without hesitation.
b. In the situation described in (a.) above, if for any reason the referee cannot reach a 5 second count, the match shall be stopped and wrestler “A” penalized for an illegal hold. Wrestler “I” will be awarded one point.
c. The referee signal for this special situation shall be an immediate punch to the back the head of wrestler “A” without hesitation.

Sec. 7 Art 5:
a. If in the sudden victory 30 second tiebreaker period with wrestler “A” in the advantage position and wrestler “I” in the defensive position, wrestler “I” may apply a head lock with or without the arm encircled.
b. In the situation described in (a.) above, as soon as wrestler “I” touches the side of his body to the mat, the referee shall award reversal immediately and start the count for near fall criteria without hesitation.

[fadzaev2 545]

I know of a different call on this same move (slamming Waters to his back, with legs in).....I didn't see it personally, but here's the scenerio.......Dave Schultz is doing a clinic near Columbus. Ohio.....and he is teaching legs to high school kids.....some really good ones were in attendance including Adam DiSabato and Rex Holman and more, and somebody in the group mentioned something to Dave, in terms of countering legs, and Dave said, "did you see that!  I moved up a weight to wrestle Ed Potokar (good with legs Ohio State vs. Oklahoma), and he threw the legs in, so I stood up, with this monster on my back.....the official just looked at us, so I said stalemate....the official said no, I said potentially dangerous, the official said no", so Dave did what Giliman did, and the official said...."YOU'RE OUTTA HERE"......Dave told the kids ...."I deserved it.....I was a jerk".   Dave Schultz is not a jerk, but take that story for what it's worth.....another story from Fadzaev's video library!!!!!

 

FADZ

[ironmonkey 157]

I can't think of a better example of why rideouts need to go.  They literally are setup in a way to encourage the top man to stall.  I am not blaming Waters for throwing in legs and hanging on for a whistle.  I am blaming the rules. There is no benefit to assume risk and work for a turn.  There is a reward for riding and working towards stalemates though.  

 

I would like to see a 2 minute overtime started from neutral.  At the end go to criteria if the score is still tied.  The goal should be to encourage wrestling, not stalling.  Right now the whole overtime setup is a mess.  We have guys stalling through the sudden death portion because it is too risky to be offensive and/or they are more confident in their ability to win the rideouts which in and of itself encourages riding and not turning which seems awfully similar to stalling.    

 

I am not a huge complainer about stalling like a lot of fans and I certainly think the refs have an impossible job managing these overtimes.  I think the overtime setup could be changed to encourage more wrestling which would benefit the athletes, the coaches, the fans and the refs!