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SSparks

Shane Sparks "Slam" Report

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"without his feet on the ground" Exactly. Well said. If he could (and he can't) do that …..it would hurt only him since his back hits the mat first and foremost.

 

 

One would think that anyone who played sports or understood leverage would have realized that the force that initiated the move had to start from the ground up. 

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One would think that anyone who played sports or understood leverage would have realized that the force that initiated the move had to start from the ground up. 

 

Yeah , or anyone with (even) a clear imagination could/would figure out this most unfortunate outcome.

 

"Imagine……if you can"   apologies to John

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So I can think of 3 (major) blown calls by the refs over the past several years:

 

1.  G. Kessel and Hendricks/Churella

2.  C. Olson with Ohio State v Michigan confused scoring

3.  T. Shiels with the Waters self slam penalty point

 

Which was the worst?

Right up (down) there among the all-time worst (tho admittedly 65 years ago) -- referee Finn Erikson's failure to call an end-of-match takedown scored by defending heavyweight champ Dick Hutton of Oklahoma State in his title match with Minnesota's Verne Gagne at the 1949 NCAAs. Match ended in a tie; back then, there was no overtime... so the win was in the ref's hands, and he raised Gagne's arm. Had Hutton won, it would've been his third title... and considering he won again in 1950, Hutton would've been the first four-time NCAA champ decades before Smith, Sanderson or Dake.

 

(BTW, the decision was so aggregious, the NCAA changed the rules... so that a decision as to who won a tied match was no longer solely in the hands of the on-the-mat ref, but required off-the-mat officials to concur. At the 1950 NCAAs, same ref, same situation -- match ends in a tie, ref raises the arm of Hutton's opponent, off-the-mat officials override, saying Hutton won. Hutton later said, "I don't think that ref liked me.")

 

Mark

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Plenty of room to jog by without running into anyone. Fudge Tunnel you really have it out for Iowa don't you? Mizzou fan? Or just another hater?

Why were Meyer's praises sung so loudly by the Iowa faithful after his macho man routine with Palacio? You don't think word of that got back to Mizzou wrestlers? it was funny as hell to see that chicken come home to roost.

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Why were Meyer's praises sung so loudly by the Iowa faithful after his macho man routine with Palacio? You don't think word of that got back to Mizzou wrestlers? it was funny as hell to see that chicken come home to roost.

Agreed.  Either own it or don't.

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Heflin vs. Zeerip has to be the worst call because there was no subjectivity and a review.

 

Almost more hilarious were the threads that followed, which assigned responsibility to Tom Ryan for the incident.  Epic.

Those were some fairly brutal accusations leveled at Tom Ryan. 

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I don't care that Waters ran into an Iowa guy.  I love stuff like this.  If I was a Mizzou fan, that would pump me up!

 

The problem here is that people are very much focused on their own points of view, and nobody else.  Take Minnesota fans.  They will go on and on about an Iowa guy celebrating or whatever, but when Mike Thorn was around firing off his six shooters and such like a wild man, they went nuts.  I love it all.  Give me fire, give me emotion, give me the competitors not liking each other.  I'm in.

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I don't care that Waters ran into an Iowa guy.  I love stuff like this.  If I was a Mizzou fan, that would pump me up!

 

The problem here is that people are very much focused on their own points of view, and nobody else.  Take Minnesota fans.  They will go on and on about an Iowa guy celebrating or whatever, but when Mike Thorn was around firing off his six shooters and such like a wild man, they went nuts.  I love it all.  Give me fire, give me emotion, give me the competitors not liking each other.  I'm in.

I agree. Give me passion. Just don't give ma an a--hole who is ridden like a mule who's only way out of the woopin' is an intentional illegal move. Like Tyson against Holyfield. Bite the ear. . .

 

Gilman is a disgrace to the sport. It would have been more apparent had Waters shown more class.

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I don't think slamming in wrestling and biting ears in boxing are even remotely similar acts.  Take a non wrestling fan and try explaining why what Gilman did was illegal.  They will have trouble understanding.  They might even think it was a scoring move. Take a nonboxing fan and show them the ear bite and they will know right away that is not within the rules.  

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This is my theory I posted  on the OpenMat.Com:

 

This is my theory and I'm sticking to it until proven wrong.

To caveat, I was not there so my theory basis is off the Big 10 Network feed, not the FLO version.

1.  I consider, as well as many others, Tim Shiels as one of the most competent and calm official in college wrestling.  He has done many National Championships and big time duals and he is one of the most consistent officials that I have ever observed.

2.  I believe, that Shiels recognized a slam or drill back and called an illegal hold on someone.  He made the signal for illegal pretty quick.  I believe, and this is where I could wrong, that he intended the penalty to go against Iowa.  Initially he didn't have the chance to show a point because of the actions by the Mizzo wrestler and then follow on by the Iowa wrestler.  The officials became concerned with separating the two wrestlers and eliminating the chaos.  I believe that Shiels didn't see Waters elbow the back of Gillman but the assistant did and likely offered that recommendation as an unsportsmanlike conduct penalty.

3.  Using the NCAA hand signals, Shiels signaled an illegal hold against Mizzo, then a unsportsmanlike conduct signal against Iowa and then he held out his green fist indicating some sort of bench warning occurred against Iowa (which should never be a surprise).  I contend that Shiels, in the heat of the moment, signaled the correct calls but to the wrong anklets causing more confusion.  I can see how this occurs and I've made this mistake many times during the course of my officiating career especially when both wrestler are wearing similar colored singlets.  If Shiels did intend to penalize Mizzo for the slam (illegal drillback is caused by the defensive wrestler) than I am dumbfounded as many.  I have a lot of respect for Shiels and JR Johnson and I believe they mixed up the colors (I hope I'm right).

4.  Shane Sparks said he talked to the head official prior to reporting.  This is true but Shiels was the head mat official, not the head Big 10 official.  If you watch :05 seconds into the remaining OT period, you can see Sparks hovering around Mike Allen, one of the head Big 10 guys.  That is the head official he interviewed.  The problem is Mike Allen had no more of a clue that was going on than any of us; if you watch the Big 10 video it is clear that Allen is giving the dear in the headlights look.  It would be inconceivable to think that during the course of all this chaos, Sparks somehow got an interview with the mat official in the middle of a dual meet.  Allen simply relayed what he saw Shiels signal to Sparks.  Sparks accurately reported what Allen told him but that doesn't necessarily mean Allen was correct.

Again, if Shiels did signal a slam against Water, I would be very surprised and shocked.  But my theory is it was a mix up on the penalty signals with the ankle bands.
Edited by Rakkasan91

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Not to say I think it should be legal or that what Gilman did was "right".  I am just saying it is not comparable to Tyson biting Holyfield.  We don't even know for sure why Gilman chose to do what he did.   Some think it was an attempt to injure.  others think it was frustration.  Still others think it was desperation.  It isn't really clear.  Tyson's intent was never doubted.   

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I agree. Give me passion. Just don't give ma an a--hole who is ridden like a mule who's only way out of the woopin' is an intentional illegal move. Like Tyson against Holyfield. Bite the ear. . .

 

Gilman is a disgrace to the sport. It would have been more apparent had Waters shown more class.

Ridden like a mule? Gilman was ridden for around 28 seconds in the match. Gilman rode waters for 1:30.

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To top it off Allen was right there front row! Why does he even have a F'n job if he cant police terrible calls like this.

Calm down. I'll give you the benefit of the doubt that your emotions are clouding reasonable thought.

Mike Allen can't put himself into a position to officiate matches from the stands. There'd be no end. If something needs done you can bet Allen will do it, and do it right. You might not hear about it though.

 

And while you're feeling like heckling why not heckle Allen and see where it gets you. :)

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I don't think slamming in wrestling and biting ears in boxing are even remotely similar acts.  Take a non wrestling fan and try explaining why what Gilman did was illegal.  They will have trouble understanding.  They might even think it was a scoring move. Take a nonboxing fan and show them the ear bite and they will know right away that is not within the rules.  

 

 

 

My wife doesn't know anything about wrestling and she understood it quite easily. 

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I talked with head mat official and the scoring was explained to me.  There was no confusion on the part of the mat official or myself as far as how I reported it.  I also talked with Mr. Alan and he declined comment.  The slam was called on Waters of Missouri.  That is the way it was called. I was there and got an explanation.  I'm not quite sure why there is all this speculating as to what happened.  I reported the facts as to what was called. 

Edited by SSparks

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I don't care that Waters ran into an Iowa guy.  I love stuff like this.  If I was a Mizzou fan, that would pump me up!

 

The problem here is that people are very much focused on their own points of view, and nobody else.  Take Minnesota fans.  They will go on and on about an Iowa guy celebrating or whatever, but when Mike Thorn was around firing off his six shooters and such like a wild man, they went nuts.  I love it all.  Give me fire, give me emotion, give me the competitors not liking each other.  I'm in.

I don't fully disagree, but this is also amateur collegiate athletics where sportsmanship counts for something. Let's keep that delicate balance, shall we?

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