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Shane Sparks "Slam" Report

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So  to be clear, everyone is in agreement that the penalty for the slam should have been on Gilman and resulted in a point (at least) for Waters.  Then the ref also called unsportsman like on Gilman giving another point to Waters.  Isn't this the exact scenario someone else pointed out that requires a flagrant misconduct penalty - an illegal move followed immediately by unsportsmanlike conduct?

 

Rakkasan, isn't that what you were saying before?  Regardless, it should have been 2 penalty points for Waters (at least) and a 6-1 score prior to the incredibly poor reversal call at the buzzer?

 

Tim Shiels should forfeit his paycheck at the very least for that abomination.  He's a danger to the wrestlers if he's truly this clueless.

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why is that?

If someone is intentionally standing in the path of the wrestler who is going to his locker room after a match, he deserves to be shoved out of the way.  It's obvious Iowa was using their backups as some kind of childish "intimidation" ploy (as evidenced by Meyer hip checking Palacio).  

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tightwaist, new rule. In order to criticize an official, you have to be able to get his name right. The name you're looking for is Cody Olson, not Cory.

 

Ok, but I still think Greg Kessel's "miss" against Hendricks was not as bad as these other two.  That is a subjective view vs. having a 2nd ref unable to correct the original call. 

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If someone is intentionally standing in the path of the wrestler who is going to his locker room after a match, he deserves to be shoved out of the way.  It's obvious Iowa was using their backups as some kind of childish "intimidation" ploy (as evidenced by Meyer hip checking Palacio).  

 

If that's how you saw that situation then I'm guessing you also believe Tom and Terry Brands probably instructed their backups to pull off this "ploy"?

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If someone is intentionally standing in the path of the wrestler who is going to his locker room after a match, he deserves to be shoved out of the way.  It's obvious Iowa was using their backups as some kind of childish "intimidation" ploy (as evidenced by Meyer hip checking Palacio).  

Palacio and Meyer had nothing to do with this. #1 the Iowa guy was not blocking the path, there was plenty of space to get by.  #2 if you have eyes you can see him talking to another Iowa wrestler at the time.  Waters chose to run into him, he was not blocked.  Waters had more chippy moments in that match than Gilman.

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We can keep piling on the ref who may have had a straight on angle and made a bad call, but we are missing a bigger point....we have a second ref who had a different angle... more of what we all saw.   Why didn't he step up to the plate?   He didn't have a problem as the second ref, making a stalling call in an earlier dual.

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I dont think it was a premeditated ploy by Iowa to purposefully have a guy blocking the way to the locker room. I just think it was the actions of the punks who knowingly put themselves there. Everyone in the stadium had eyes on Waters after the match and knew where he was heading. I like how the Iowa guy just happens to be standing right in his path and acting as if he doesnt see Waters coming. Then he gets shoulder checked right out of the way, lol that was great.

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I have to rely on what SHP and others have indicated - that Tim Shiels is one of the better referees out there - but I would really love to hear, WHAT was he thinking, and after seeing the replay - would he agree that he just got that one wrong?

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4. Mike Allen has nothing to do with it...he can't control Shiel's calls on the mat and can't explain this call. If Mike A. was interfering and trying to overturn calls on the mat then half of the forum posters would be all over him too.

He has everything to do with referees getting away with this BS. Of course he isnt going to be able to walk out and I overturn a call, thats absurd. He can, however, reprimand these refs when they clearly blow a call like that. Its not like these refs are volunteering their time, they are paid professionals whos decisions have a huge impact. The look on Allens face was one of helplessness, like, "oh dam, my boy got that wrong but I cant do sh@t about it now"

 

Its not like this was a subjective call, like if he thought the shoulders were flat or not for a pin. This is night and day.

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I have to rely on what SHP and others have indicated - that Tim Shiels is one of the better referees out there - but I would really love to hear, WHAT was he thinking, and after seeing the replay - would he agree that he just got that one wrong?

God bless SHP, but its pretty clear from his posts that he would be the last person on this forum to ever accuse a ref of being bad at anything.  He's neutral, but incurably polite as well.  Not sure how reliable his judgement is in this case.

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So  to be clear, everyone is in agreement that the penalty for the slam should have been on Gilman and resulted in a point (at least) for Waters.  Then the ref also called unsportsman like on Gilman giving another point to Waters.  Isn't this the exact scenario someone else pointed out that requires a flagrant misconduct penalty - an illegal move followed immediately by unsportsmanlike conduct?

 

Rakkasan, isn't that what you were saying before?  Regardless, it should have been 2 penalty points for Waters (at least) and a 6-1 score prior to the incredibly poor reversal call at the buzzer?

 

Tim Shiels should forfeit his paycheck at the very least for that abomination.  He's a danger to the wrestlers if he's truly this clueless.

Don't recall saying that TigerFan.  I had thought the illegal slam/drill was called on Iowa follwed by an unsportsmanlike conduct on Mizzo.  It had never occured to me until Shane Sparks came on line that Waters did the slamming.

 

Also as a point since you said it but an illegal hold followed by unsportsmanlike conduct does not require a flgrant misconduct call.  Unsportsmanlike conduct, uneccesaary roughness, illegal holds and technical violations (minus stalling) follow the same penalty sequence:  1st violation (1 match point), 2nd violation (one match point), 3rd violation (2 match points) and 4th violation disqualify from that match.

 

In theory, you could have illegal hold followed by an illegal hold, followed by uncessary roughness followed by unsportsmanlike conduct.  The final infraction would end the match per the penalty table.

 

High School rules have a statement under unecessary roughness that continuing acts can be construed as flagrant misconduct but college isn't specific like HS.  It is a judgement call; however, after two consecutive unsportsmanlikes or uneccessary roughness or a combination by the same wrestler in the same match, I'd be sending someone to the bus in the parking lot.

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Bucksfan, you have no idea what he said to Shiels after the meet behind closed doors. For that matter, neither do I.

This.

 

I was referring to the idea that Mike A. could have done something right then and there on the mat, he can't.

I would assume that Mike A. would a conversation with Shiels after the fact, yes.

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Don't recall saying that TigerFan.  I had thought the illegal slam/drill was called on Iowa follwed by an unsportsmanlike conduct on Mizzo.  It had never occured to me until Shane Sparks came on line that Waters did the slamming.

 

Also as a point since you said it but an illegal hold followed by unsportsmanlike conduct does not require a flgrant misconduct call.  Unsportsmanlike conduct, uneccesaary roughness, illegal holds and technical violations (minus stalling) follow the same penalty sequence:  1st violation (1 match point), 2nd violation (one match point), 3rd violation (2 match points) and 4th violation disqualify from that match.

 

In theory, you could have illegal hold followed by an illegal hold, followed by uncessary roughness followed by unsportsmanlike conduct.  The final infraction would end the match per the penalty table.

 

High School rules have a statement under unecessary roughness that continuing acts can be construed as flagrant misconduct but college isn't specific like HS.  It is a judgement call; however, after two consecutive unsportsmanlikes or uneccessary roughness or a combination by the same wrestler in the same match, I'd be sending someone to the bus in the parking lot.

Yeah, I corrected myself on the flagrant misconduct thread.  It was RichB, not you, who was asserting that.  So, properly called, the slam then the tackle after the whistle, you'd have sent Gilman packing?

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I will also say, however, tigerfan, that Shiels did not have a very good weekend.

 

That said, I don't know if I've ever heard "incurably polite" meant to be an insult!

No insult intended.  Just observing that your comments about anyone will always tend to the positive (almost exclusively) even when more critical analysis is warranted.

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