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Itmeagain

Cael Sanderson Record should have 1 loss (at least)

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From a recent post on the forum someone stated Cael had a loss while RS...A loss is a loss redshirt or not...So is Marcus LeVesseur the only true undefeated wrestler in NCAA atleast wrestling 4 years?

What a tool for even starting such and idiotic post. Loser.

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In past 30 or so years, Cael stands far above. The older folks have a point with Uetake --- world champ during school, wow.

 

Going to be hard to surpass Cael. Suppose someone could be more dominant but will be tough. Also, someone who doesn't take a redshirt and goes undefeated (and isn't 2 years away from normal for his grade) --- they'll have a case -- particularly if they are close to being as dominant.

 

I think talking about Dake being top 5 is right.

 

My opinion, Cael still stays number 1 even if Dake wins out.

 

Regarding the main point of this thread - His official record should NOT have one loss, get over it. Did he lose in college though, yes, so be it, you happy? Still #1.

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It will take a lot for anyone to surpass Cael in terms of NCAA legacy. It always amazes me what kind of short term memory people have. What Dake is doing is amazing, even more-so without a redshirt and at a school like Cornell, but Cael was a machine, and not only went 4 straight years without losing, but really didn't have many low scoring matches. His matches were not close (save a very few), and he didn't have many matches in which he scored less than 10 points. What he did was remarkable. Even the best wrestlers usually get sick, or injured, or simply have a bad day. But not Cael. You could argue that there have been other wrestlers that have been at Cael's level, or even above, as a senior in college (Burroughs for example), but nobody has been as consistent throughout college as Cael. If Dake wins title 4, especially if he beats Taylor again, we can have some interesting discussions about where he should be ranked. But you really can't put him ahead of Cael when you consider the overall record, the margin of victory, and the strength of competition. Dake hasn't had easy opponents, but Cael steamrolled through guys that had very good credentials.

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It will take a lot for anyone to surpass Cael in terms of NCAA legacy. It always amazes me what kind of short term memory people have. What Dake is doing is amazing, even more-so without a redshirt and at a school like Cornell, but Cael was a machine, and not only went 4 straight years without losing, but really didn't have many low scoring matches. His matches were not close (save a very few), and he didn't have many matches in which he scored less than 10 points. What he did was remarkable. Even the best wrestlers usually get sick, or injured, or simply have a bad day. But not Cael. You could argue that there have been other wrestlers that have been at Cael's level, or even above, as a senior in college (Burroughs for example), but nobody has been as consistent throughout college as Cael. If Dake wins title 4, especially if he beats Taylor again, we can have some interesting discussions about where he should be ranked. But you really can't put him ahead of Cael when you consider the overall record, the margin of victory, and the strength of competition. Dake hasn't had easy opponents, but Cael steamrolled through guys that had very good credentials.

 

I really couldn't agree more!

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I never--ever thought that I would see a topic on this forum with (even) a title such as this title.

We all , or most of us , had so much fun watching Cael week after week. Keeping the same

pace of excellence. Year after year. Until..........159.

 

Never thought that I would see anyone take issue - in any way- with what 'the professor' of folkstyle has accomplished.

 

Yet, each time I click on this college forum there it is, still on the front page. Now I am contributing to the attention getting behavior. That's all it is. Good bye.

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I doubt there's another sport in this country where the "fans" try so hard to knock the athletes down a peg (or ten). I mean at every level. There's an irrational need to point out flaws, or poke holes, and I just don't get it.

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It will take a lot for anyone to surpass Cael in terms of NCAA legacy. It always amazes me what kind of short term memory people have. What Dake is doing is amazing, even more-so without a redshirt and at a school like Cornell, but Cael was a machine, and not only went 4 straight years without losing, but really didn't have many low scoring matches. His matches were not close (save a very few), and he didn't have many matches in which he scored less than 10 points. What he did was remarkable. Even the best wrestlers usually get sick, or injured, or simply have a bad day. But not Cael. You could argue that there have been other wrestlers that have been at Cael's level, or even above, as a senior in college (Burroughs for example), but nobody has been as consistent throughout college as Cael. If Dake wins title 4, especially if he beats Taylor again, we can have some interesting discussions about where he should be ranked. But you really can't put him ahead of Cael when you consider the overall record, the margin of victory, and the strength of competition. Dake hasn't had easy opponents, but Cael steamrolled through guys that had very good credentials.

 

 

Spot on!! Sanderson beat a lot of top caliber guys that would have won a National title or more national titles if Cael wasn't there: Jon Trenge, Daniel Cormier, Eggum, Hrovat, Vering, Vertus Jones, Rob Rohn, etc. I think the who's who of Cael's competition is better than Dake's up to this point. If Dake does beat Taylor at the NCAAs and wins a 4th title, then that would be by far Dake's biggest victory. However, I believe Sanderson had more 'big' victories, but it's hard for some to see that because most of his 'big' victories were not close matches. For example, he beat Trenge 16-5, 6-1, 12-4; Rohn 20-5; Eggum 16-5, 8-0, 6-1; Jones 19-6; Cormier 20-9, 8-4, 14-3, 10-3, 8-3; pinned Vering 1:58, 9-5; and pinned Hrovat 0:38, 4:24. There are other big victories and he did have a rare close match most likely against the guys listed above, but he dominated them much more than he struggled with them.

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Clearly Cael's comp has been better than Dake's to date, yet you don't know what the full body of work will look like for Dake.

I'm biased as a former middleweight, but I think the upper weights have it way easier. Much smaller talent pool.

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I'm biased as a former middleweight, but I think the upper weights have it way easier. Much smaller talent pool.

 

It can also play against you. Most upper weights are Juinor/Seniors that have been around a while. Mcintosh was the number 1 recruit in all the land and look how he get handled his first year.

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and Kyle Dake beat NCAA champ to be Frank Molinaro like a red headed step-child.

 

I would have to put it like this....Sanderson and Gable most dominant in their weight classes for their entire career- both lost one match by 2 points during their first four years of college....but Dake is really doing something neither of them dared to do....he dares to GROW/EAT/ ENJOY the sport.

God Bless Him for showing everyone that it can be done.

 

 

 

 

 

It will take a lot for anyone to surpass Cael in terms of NCAA legacy. It always amazes me what kind of short term memory people have. What Dake is doing is amazing, even more-so without a redshirt and at a school like Cornell, but Cael was a machine, and not only went 4 straight years without losing, but really didn't have many low scoring matches. His matches were not close (save a very few), and he didn't have many matches in which he scored less than 10 points. What he did was remarkable. Even the best wrestlers usually get sick, or injured, or simply have a bad day. But not Cael. You could argue that there have been other wrestlers that have been at Cael's level, or even above, as a senior in college (Burroughs for example), but nobody has been as consistent throughout college as Cael. If Dake wins title 4, especially if he beats Taylor again, we can have some interesting discussions about where he should be ranked. But you really can't put him ahead of Cael when you consider the overall record, the margin of victory, and the strength of competition. Dake hasn't had easy opponents, but Cael steamrolled through guys that had very good credentials.

 

 

Spot on!! Sanderson beat a lot of top caliber guys that would have won a National title or more national titles if Cael wasn't there: Jon Trenge, Daniel Cormier, Eggum, Hrovat, Vering, Vertus Jones, Rob Rohn, etc. I think the who's who of Cael's competition is better than Dake's up to this point. If Dake does beat Taylor at the NCAAs and wins a 4th title, then that would be by far Dake's biggest victory. However, I believe Sanderson had more 'big' victories, but it's hard for some to see that because most of his 'big' victories were not close matches. For example, he beat Trenge 16-5, 6-1, 12-4; Rohn 20-5; Eggum 16-5, 8-0, 6-1; Jones 19-6; Cormier 20-9, 8-4, 14-3, 10-3, 8-3; pinned Vering 1:58, 9-5; and pinned Hrovat 0:38, 4:24. There are other big victories and he did have a rare close match most likely against the guys listed above, but he dominated them much more than he struggled with them.

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If Dake wins a 4th title at his 4th different weight then he has a strong consideration for the #2 slot behind Cael. Dake is a mini Varner, no offense to the Olympic Champion Varner who is one of the greats. Dake's defensive style, like Varner, makes it impossible for him to win the Hodge and takes away from him being more imposing than Cael. Although if Dake runs the table this year he will win it. Do people not remember how Cael dominated? No one has been that dominate for 4 years and won 4 titles. Dake, if he wins his 4th title he will be with the likes of:

 

Gable

Kemp

Ueteke

Hodge

Smith

 

But not Cael

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Great point.... If you had 1 wrestler to put on your team in a dual or the NCAAs .....who do you pick? Anyone that would pick anyone other than Cael is not from this planet, or a real homer

Or perhaps they've thought through it more than you. Gable was more likely to get a pin than Cael. I think he had 25 in a row. Pins are worth 6 points in a dual and 2 points at nationals. It would be close, but I'd rather have Gable for that reason.

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Great point.... If you had 1 wrestler to put on your team in a dual or the NCAAs .....who do you pick? Anyone that would pick anyone other than Cael is not from this planet, or a real homer

Or perhaps they've thought through it more than you. Gable was more likely to get a pin than Cael. I think he had 25 in a row. Pins are worth 6 points in a dual and 2 points at nationals. It would be close, but I'd rather have Gable for that reason.

 

Dan Hodge, Chris Taylor, and Earl McCready would also be good choices. All of them had higher pinning percentages than Gable and all were undefeated. (Of course, Taylor wouldn't be able to make weight in this era.)

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I'll bet he-Cael- cut a ton to make 184. He's a pretty good sized man.

Shoot....I'd almost look normal at 184, and I'm a midget.

 

 

I doubt Sanderson cut much if at all during his career. He certainly didn't his senior year. I get the impression Dake has cut a lot.

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I'll bet he-Cael- cut a ton to make 184. He's a pretty good sized man.

Shoot....I'd almost look normal at 184, and I'm a midget.

 

 

I doubt Sanderson cut much if at all during his career. He certainly didn't his senior year. I get the impression Dake has cut a lot.

Sanderson has said that his walking around weight while training for the 2004 Olympics was just over 200 pounds. He added that he would cut out sodas and junk food (and increase his workload) about a month out of competition in order to make weight.

 

When he entered the Northeast Regional seven years after his Olympic run, he reportedly weighed in 5 or 6 pounds under the 211.5 pound (96 kg) limit. And that was before he started training seriously and dropping to the 185 pound (84 kg) weight class. So, in essence, he could still make his old college weight class of 184 pounds 10 years later - and seven years after retiring from competition. And, considering he wrestled 197 pounds his final year in college, I'd agree with Plasmodium that he was cutting little or no weight his senior year (and not much in earlier years either).

 

That said, I'd agree with you BadgerMon that he's a good-sized man. I'd guess he's one of those guys who looks "bigger" than he actually weighs (but definitely not as a result of severe cutting and re-hydration techniques).

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This thread prompted me to reminisce about Cael’s career and was looking through his match-by-match record. I remember him being dominant, but I was surprised how much I had forgotten about the level of his dominance. Time does change memory, I guess. I’m not trying to persuade anyone, but I thought you all might be interested in a few highlights.

 

Redshirt year – couldn’t locate, but we all know that he lost to Paul Jenn (6-4).

 

Redshirt Freshman Year (184): He was 39-0, which did not include four unofficial victories against unattached, community college, or senior-level athletes (Midlands). Of the 39 victories, 9 were decisions and the rest were major decisions, technical falls, or pins (77% in bonus points). At NCAA’s his only decision victory was in the finals against Eggum (6-1).

 

Redshirt Sophomore Year (184): He was 40-0, which did not include three unofficial victories. Of the 40 victories, 6 were decisions, and the remaining victories were bonus point victories (85%) At NCAA’s, his closest match was an 11-point victory in the semi-finals over Eggum. He majored Vertus Jones in the finals 19-6.

 

Redshirt Junior Year (184): He was 40-0, and he did not have any unofficial victories. That year, he had 36 bonus point victories (90%). Three of the four decisions were against Cormier, including an 8-4 victory the NCAA finals. His next closest match at NCAA’s was a 14-point victory in the semis.

 

Redshirt Senior Year (197): He was 40-0, which did not include three unofficial victories. During that season, he only had one regular decision (6-1 over Trenge during season). The rest (97.5%) were bonus-point victories. His closest match at NCAA’s was an 8-point victory over Trenge in the finals. In addition, on the season he had 23 pins, 11 tech falls, and 2 injury defaults. In other words, he dismantled 36 opponents (90%).

 

Cael’s final record was 159-0 (10 additional unofficial victories), and he scored bonus points in 87.4% of all his matches (if my math is correct). Though I wish he had made the decision to stick around at ISU, I have a renewed sense of appreciation for what he did on the mat. Wow!

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I'm baffled by the fact that this is a topic, let alone one that has drawn three pages of replies.

 

But don't you get it? Cael didn't have the guts to dare not to redshirt, and as a result, his 159-0 record against stud opponents and 4 titles and multiple Hodges are tainted with at least 1 loss that should be on his record.

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