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DIII Regionals this weekend - d3wrestle.com coverage

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There are six DIII regionals this weekend, and the top three from each weight qualify for the NCAA Championships in Hershey, Pennsylvania, on March 13-14. d3wrestle.com has begun its coverage of the postseason and will have previews of all six regions this week. 

 

West Region Preview

 

East Region Preview

 

Northeast Region Preview

 

Central, Midwest, and Mideast coming later this week.

 

d3wrestle.com Championships homepage - links to all previews

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Why dont they just make it a 32 man bracket with at large bids?

 

I have no idea.  That would be much, much better than what they have now.  Currently, they have 16 man brackets with 18 guys at each weight, resulting in 2 pigtail matches.  Furthermore, these pigtails are drawn randomly, so top seeded wrestlers are having to wrestle pigtails just to get into the bracket, which IMO is also a joke.  

 

The playing field will never be fair at Nationals so long that Augsburg is able to qualify their entire damn team because they wrestle in a region full of HS quality kids.

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I have no idea.  That would be much, much better than what they have now.  Currently, they have 16 man brackets with 18 guys at each weight, resulting in 2 pigtail matches.  Furthermore, these pigtails are drawn randomly, so top seeded wrestlers are having to wrestle pigtails just to get into the bracket, which IMO is also a joke.  

 

The playing field will never be fair at Nationals so long that Augsburg is able to qualify their entire damn team because they wrestle in a region full of HS quality kids.

It seems like you forgot that this is division 3...A division where there are no scholarships (remember, most schools can't offer academic scholarships to their top athletes).  If you want to complain about the quality of competition, you should have gone D1 or even D2.  Nobody actually cares who wins the Augsburg vs Wartburg dual at nationals.  The top kids will end up all americans or national champions, no matter what region they qualify out of.  

 

I'm sure the 18 man bracket instead of 32 is because of lack of $$$ to run the larger tournament/fund more qualifiers.  32 would be nice, but this is what we live with for a non-revenue, no scholarship division.  

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I have no problem with the way D3 is done. These are regional programs with limited budgets. This allows a few athletes from each region to experience nationals. If you're in a tough region and can't qualify, you can always choose to go to another region.

 

The D3 format is more similar to many high school states and I would much rather have every region represented than ensuring the absolute best 18 kids get in.

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It seems like you forgot that this is division 3...A division where there are no scholarships (remember, most schools can't offer academic scholarships to their top athletes).  If you want to complain about the quality of competition, you should have gone D1 or even D2.  Nobody actually cares who wins the Augsburg vs Wartburg dual at nationals.  The top kids will end up all americans or national champions, no matter what region they qualify out of.  

 

I'm sure the 18 man bracket instead of 32 is because of lack of $$$ to run the larger tournament/fund more qualifiers.  32 would be nice, but this is what we live with for a non-revenue, no scholarship division.  

 

Effectively, they already have a 32 man bracket with 14 byes.  My problem is that the wrong wrestlers are qualifying for Nationals.  The top kids aren't ending up as AA.  If you want to create unfair regions, fine, but you need some sort of wildcard system so AA quality kids aren't staying home.  When AA kids aren't given an opportunity to prove it at Nationals, their entire team suffers.  

 

Maybe you don't give a **** who gets a team trophy at D3 nationals, but the kids on those teams sure do.

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Billyhoyle

 

Not sure why you are so against D-3.  These guys are training and working hard for the love of the sport. To say that no one actually cares who wins the Augsburg V Wartburg Dual at Nationals is grossly unfair.  There are about 100 teams, (more than D-1 or D-2) who care.  A lot of them are trying to contend for a National championship.  This year could be one of the most balanced fields.  What ohcomeon is referring to is the fact that some qualifiers only have 12 teams (Augsburgs) while others have as many as 19. I'm not sure how that is far.  

 

The wrestlers in D-3 are working hard.  They are dedicated to their sport.  If they are ranked in the top 10 in the country they should get a wild card chance to represent at the nationals if their region has 5 top tens and they don't qualify in the top 3.

 

Andy Vogel had a great plan for arranging the regionals fairly. Hopefully the NCAA will look at it for future National Tournaments as D3 continues to grow.

 

That's another thing.  The growth of wrestling has been the greatest at D-3 in the last 5 years. Hopefully some D-1 & 2 schools will take note and add wrestling.

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I have no problem with the way D3 is done. These are regional programs with limited budgets. This allows a few athletes from each region to experience nationals. If you're in a tough region and can't qualify, you can always choose to go to another region.

 

The D3 format is more similar to many high school states and I would much rather have every region represented than ensuring the absolute best 18 kids get in.

"If you're in a tough region and can't qualify, you can always choose to go to another region."

 

What?  Your position is that if a wrestler is being screwed out of a spot at nationals, he should transfer to a completely different school?  

 

I'm fine with having each region represented, but not at the expense of quality wrestlers having to stay home.  Adding wildcards is necessary here.

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DIII is really a different animal that the other divisions so it really isn't fair to make a comparison.

 

Could there be some form of at-large bid process to make sure a ranked wrestler in a strong division is included? Sure, but I wouldn't want to see a change beyond expanding the bracket for a couple of at-large wrestlers.  

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"If you're in a tough region and can't qualify, you can always choose to go to another region."

What? Your position is that if a wrestler is being screwed out of a spot at nationals, he should transfer to a completely different school?

I'm fine with having each region represented, but not at the expense of quality wrestlers having to stay home. Adding wildcards is necessary here.

As I said, I consider it more like the high school systems. It is more about geography (D3 schools have regional scheduling requirements --they are suppose to be regional programs per NCAA bylaws). Sure, one region of a state might be stronger than another but that doesn't mean the two best teams (or top 8 athletes) all should be meeting at the championship and the same is true here.

 

My point in regards to the athlete having options is that many athletes choose the top programs and conferences because they are the top programs. They know going in that there is a limited number of bids and by choosing that school there is a risk that they will not get to leave their region and be represented at nationals.

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I'm not so sure that's the case with DIII. The choice of these schools has more to do with distance from family, religious choice, cost, school size, etc. as opposed to the quality of their sports programs. Most (note I said most not all) kids heading to DIII are doing so for educational reasons and sports just happens to be an additional college experience they are choosing.

 

Most DI kids and may DII kids have sports as a priority with education second.     

Edited by Zebra

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Effectively, they already have a 32 man bracket with 14 byes.  My problem is that the wrong wrestlers are qualifying for Nationals.  The top kids aren't ending up as AA.  If you want to create unfair regions, fine, but you need some sort of wildcard system so AA quality kids aren't staying home.  When AA kids aren't given an opportunity to prove it at Nationals, their entire team suffers.  

 

Maybe you don't give a **** who gets a team trophy at D3 nationals, but the kids on those teams sure do.

 

I think the point is that the D3 national tournament needs to ensure regional representation (as pinnum emphasized), since this is a non scholarship division, and by design not as competitive as D1.  Maybe augsburg can complain about how wartburg qualifies its athletes (or vice versa), but i'm sure most other schools in D3 can complain that those two have certain advantages that they are not privy to (transfers, etc).  It's not that I don't care who wins the tournament...I'm sure the best team usually wins...It's just maintaining regional representation is crucial.  

 

Maybe the solution is to have the national champion determined by national duals.  Most people who attend D3 nationals don't really care about the team race anyway, and are mainly there to support their friends/family, so the criticisms that surround this switch in D1 don't really apply.  

Edited by Billyhoyle

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No, the solution is to have either competitively balanced regions or the current regions plus a wildcard system.  Ideally, there should be competitively balanced regions AND a wildcard system.  I don't care what level of wrestling it is, this is a merit based sport and the best should qualify for the most important event of the year.

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No, the solution is to have either competitively balanced regions or the current regions plus a wildcard system.  Ideally, there should be competitively balanced regions AND a wildcard system.  I don't care what level of wrestling it is, this is a merit based sport and the best should qualify for the most important event of the year.

You are exactly right. I don't understand why they still don't have balanced regions. Still this is better than the old qualifying system that used historical data. although I think the regions were set up based on that data when Augsburg in particular was winning the tournament every other year.

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No, the solution is to have either competitively balanced regions or the current regions plus a wildcard system.  Ideally, there should be competitively balanced regions AND a wildcard system.  I don't care what level of wrestling it is, this is a merit based sport and the best should qualify for the most important event of the year.

Except a lot of schools don't have the $$$ to travel the country.  For D1, there are big tournaments like Midlands, Scuffle, CKLV, which allows most people to face top competitions a couple of times. The RPI rankings that come out are thus accurate because of the # of matches against each other.  I don't think the RPI for division 3 would be nearly as precise, since a lot of teams don't go outside local competition due to budgetary restraints.  It is a merit based sport, and the best kids qualify and win the national tournament in D3.  Your argument is about the 15th vs 20th ranked kid qualifying when there are 18 spots.   

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Maybe they should put in a system where they look at the number of All-Americans over the previous few years and then award the number of bids to qualifiers based on those number of All-Americans and allow the qualifying tournament to decide how they divide those bids between the various weights?

 

Do you think that would be a better system?

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Except a lot of schools don't have the $$$ to travel the country.  For D1, there are big tournaments like Midlands, Scuffle, CKLV, which allows most people to face top competitions a couple of times. The RPI rankings that come out are thus accurate because of the # of matches against each other.  I don't think the RPI for division 3 would be nearly as precise, since a lot of teams don't go outside local competition due to budgetary restraints.  It is a merit based sport, and the best kids qualify and win the national tournament in D3.  Your argument is about the 15th vs 20th ranked kid qualifying when there are 18 spots.   

"Your argument is about the 15th vs 20th ranked kid qualifying when there are 18 spots."

 

No, my argument is not this.

 

I'm talking about a division like this: http://www.d3wrestle.com/?p=7652 qualifying as many as a division like this: http://www.d3wrestle.com/?p=7647

 

I am talking about this Region's 149 weight class: http://www.d3wrestle.com/?p=7623.  

The number 2,4,5,6 guys at 149 are in this division, and only 3 will qualify assuming no upsets from the other guys in the region. In the West region, three UNRANKED wrestlers will qualify over, at worst, the #6 ranked guy in the country.  This is not unusual.  In fact, Central region 197 has a similar situation going on.  Top 10 ranked wrestlers, at the very least, should not be left at home.

 

This isn't about travel or money either.  Many of these teams now travel FURTHER to these new regions than they previously did.  Why would the team from Concordia, WI travel to Minneapolis before UW La Crosse or UW Stevens Point?

 

You don't know what you're talking about here.  This qualifying system is a joke.  Wildcards are necessary at the very least.

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This happens at the WPIAL fairly regularly (and probably happens in District 11 too). Pitt has done well at landing guys that have never qualified for the PA state championships despite being one of the best kids in the state.

 

It happens; and it allows every region representation. Nothing wrong with it in my book.

 

PS - don't put too much weight into rankings. I have found the D3 rankings the most volitile. (Mobile)

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