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jeffr_ideal

Ben Askren Rant

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I m glad Asken posted his "rant".  Pushing is not an offensive move, hand fighting and collar tie's are not offensive moves.  I ll never understand how a stall can be called because a man is just moving forward (but not attempting an offensive move) As a former wrestler, i was completely ok with a man moving forward and me backward since his legs were moving to me and his weight was leaning forward.  

 

Ive been out of college wrestling for some time but the "sumo" style of wrestling and the new style of takedown defense are killing the sport from a spectators point of view.  I dont want to see stalements, i want to see wrestlers looking for points.  whatever happened to spralls and crossfaces and combo's off them? Doesn't mean i m any less interested though!  i guess i m dating myself.  

Edited by John79

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agreed but still of the opinion that from the defensive wrestlers position, more points can be scored from them opposed to a diving for an opponents ankles

 

and i m not that old...;) prb say that the popularity of funk started with askren

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I like scrambling. It started getting more complicated toward the later 90's. Askren made it absurdly strange to watch. Guys like Ness can pin someone from anywhere, and this is very entertaining.

 

I don't like it when guys leap for and blanket the shooter's ankles to force a restart. Very boring and it reduces the shooting later in the match.

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Unfortunately, although effective, the advent of "The Funk" has made wrestling more boring in some respects. We now have kids drilling shot defense in the funk instead of spending time on finishing shots cleanly.

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Port Robertson during Iowa's heyday said the way stalling was being called was eliminating the lanky wrestlers from succeeding in college. He said that they weren't built to win the "sumo" contests that were being officiated. Askren is right that what Iowa has lived off of aren't offensive scoring moves by and large.

 

I've had to change the way I teach some single leg finishes. Now if you are on one knee and attempt to bring the opponent's leg up for a high single leg finish, they just dive under and grab an ankle and try to get a stalemate.

 

The bottom man standing up and forcing the top man to "cut" him or get hit for stalling irks me. The bottom man has several options for reversals when the top man's hands are locked, but you rarely see them used. If they were wrestling would more exciting. Lewboo and Schalles were two guys you loved to see get to their feet when they were down. Chances were a 5 point move would occur.

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I agree with Askren in this specific situation, but I disagree that with the sentiment that the Hawkeye "sumo" contest should be considered "zero offense." If no one has scored a takedown, the guy on the edge of the circle is stalling. Seems pretty obvious to me. Don't like a guy pushing you out? Circle back in and push him out. 

 

That's how I won my JV County Outstanding Wrestler award anyways. 

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The logical flaw here, other than askren thinking is easy to site when someone is going backwards because he could do it, is that wrestlers should be treated the same for going backwards as a person taking ground. Even if you don't think it constitutes offense (to me it is, since one guy is controlling the ties), you can't act like it's the same.

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why is sumo always used as a negative? sumo has a thriving, very long lived professional circuit. if only american folkstyle was as successful as sumo. the matches arent bad either. 

 

Sumo, thriving? Actually, Sumo's been in a period of serious decline - with attendance hitting record lows in recent years.

 

That said, there's been some recent signs suggesting that things may finally be beginning to improve. It's really too early to tell, so we'll just have to wait and see.  Below's a link to a Japan Times article that provides an overview of the situation.

 

http://www.japantimes.co.jp/sports/2013/09/10/sumo/is-sumos-lost-decade-finally-coming-to-an-end/#.VPAOXfnF-So

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Heavy hands, pushing/shoving, and faking half shots are ways to set up your offense...they are not offense.

Nailed it.  In an era with great technical wrestlers like Dake, Taylor, etc., no need to hand out stall points to guys who take no chances and just push and shove.  Like Askren said, people have figured out the game; now, you can complain, or you can up your game to include more technique and risk taking or expect more of the same.  Sorry, this one ain't all on the refs.

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I wanna hear one interview, just one, where Ben DOESNT relive his glory days. If youre gonna talk about the Iowa flop and how everybody hates them cool, but for once, dont be stereotypical Ben and rant about how good you were when you used to wreslte.

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The logical flaw here, other than askren thinking is easy to site when someone is going backwards because he could do it, is that wrestlers should be treated the same for going backwards as a person taking ground. Even if you don't think it constitutes offense (to me it is, since one guy is controlling the ties), you can't act like it's the same.

If they use this style to score--think Kyle Snyder--I get it.  But if a wrestler just controls ties and pushes for affect (or the half shot out of bounds), it's not offense.

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Precisely why I don't like the idea of a push out rule in Folkstyle Wrestling, at least in regular time.  Score and the most appropriate thing Ben said, "TAKE CHANCES".

 

I absolutely agree with you! Wrestling on the feet in freestyle has become one big snooze fest. Every time one wrestler gets close to the edge a giant pushout match ensues and neither wrestler attempts "real" offense. Good thing that trash isn't in college wrestling!

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But actual wrestling. 

 

No. Wrestling is gaining the dominant position more often than your opponent, which is rewarded by points.  Sometimes that can mean taking chances. Other times it can mean taking advantage of the opportunities that present themselves.  I can not take a single chance an entire match and win by tech fall if my opponent is a fool.

 

"Taking chances" implies risk.  The easiest way to win a match is by not losing a match, and "taking chances" significantly increases the odds that I may lose the match.  It may not be the wrestling you care to watch, but it is wrestling nonetheless.

 

The Seattle Seahawks have relied on an elite defense and solid, low risk rushing attack to win a lot of games the past few years. Why don't you hear fans screaming for them to take more chances?

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No. Wrestling is gaining the dominant position more often than your opponent, which is rewarded by points.  Sometimes that can mean taking chances. Other times it can mean taking advantage of the opportunities that present themselves.  I can not take a single chance an entire match and win by tech fall if my opponent is a fool.

 

"Taking chances" implies risk.  The easiest way to win a match is by not losing a match, and "taking chances" significantly increases the odds that I may lose the match.  It may not be the wrestling you care to watch, but it is wrestling nonetheless.

 

The Seattle Seahawks have relied on an elite defense and solid, low risk rushing attack to win a lot of games the past few years. Why don't you hear fans screaming for them to take more chances?

So the Seahawks never blitz?  Never double team an elite receiver?  Just hang back in prevent mode all game?  You are equating "defense" with "conservative."  Not the same thing.

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