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scrambler

Go down BO and take it OT

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The mistake was when he pulled a Snyder (mental gaffe) and chose bottom to start the 2nd. Not being able to change choice to neutral cost him the match.

My feeling, too.  He looked totally confused at the beginning of the second.  Live and learn and move on...

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How is that any different than starting from the feet to finish the third? Choosing down, you are putting yourself in a position that is not your best just to get back to neutral with less time left or later in OT. In OT, you will then be more tired and only have one minute. From your best position.

 

If you did what Bo did, you get over 1.5 minutes in your best position to win the match. You are fresher. You take away your opponent's ability to ride you, which he just did to the tune of nearly two minutes of riding time.

 

If you think your edge is on the feet, Bo's choice was the best choice. You give yourself more time to win the match while your'e less tired than you'd be in OT, you take away one more way your opponent can beat you (by just riding you), and you allow yourself the chance to execute from your best position for the longest amount of time. The fact that it didn't work out for him is immaterial. He obviously doesn't know the outcome when making the choice.

 

 

He was losing. 2-2 on the scoreboard + RT for Isaac = you are actually losing 3-2 if you choose neutral or down. By choosing down you need to escape in 1:40 to get to OT, or an escape + TD to win. Choosing neutral you need a TD and ride out to win, or just a TD and give up the escape to go to OT. 

 

I get why he did it, but he made a choice and lost with that choice. When that happens I would think it natural to consider whether the choice was the correct one. In the end it matters not as the match is over. He gets to live with the choice he made. 

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He was losing. 2-2 on the scoreboard + RT for Isaac = you are actually losing 3-2 if you choose neutral or down. By choosing down you need to escape in 1:40 to get to OT, or an escape + TD to win. Choosing neutral you need a TD and ride out to win, or just a TD and give up the escape to go to OT.

 

I get why he did it, but he made a choice and lost with that choice. When that happens I would think it natural to consider whether the choice was the correct one. In the end it matters not as the match is over. He gets to live with the choice he made.

You are missing the point. Of course he was losing. My point is it doesn't matter whether you're losing by 1 or tied in OT in the situation where you think your best shot to win, your best position, is neutral. In the end, you are either taking the guy down to win or not.

 

Jeff Jordan has made this same decision before for his wrestlers and while initially I second-guessed him, I learned to appreciate that strategically, it makes a lot of sense to put yourself in the best position to win first before worrying about buying more time in OT. An example is Micah Jordan vs. Aaron Pico. Micah was in a similar situation, 3rd period, down by 1, had been ridden by Pico, had choice. Jeff told him to go neutral. Micah was probably not going to beat Pico on the mat so despite Pico being as good or better from the feet, he gave his son the best shot he possibly had by giving him the most time possible from his own best position, neutral, to win.

 

I would want the most time to score from my best position even if it meant I might lose a chance to get to OT. I would want 90 seconds to take the guy down vs. 90 seconds to escape and then have to take the guy down after that anyway to win (if you can even get out) or risk going into rideouts after having given up 2 minutes of RT.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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imo any wrestler should do what HE wants. He will have a better chance to succeed because HE THINKS this is the best position for himself.

What I or what anyone else would do is of no importance.

As a coach I always told my wrestlers "you choose, if you are unsure THEN I will make the call". I wanted them where they were confident.

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nerd, I get what you are saying. But he'd still have to not only get the TD, but also ride him out, then get another TD in OT or win in ride outs. It was going to be hard either way, but stop worrying as to whether or not I get what you are saying. I do indeed get it. Just not sure I totally agree with it. I don't totally disagree either.

 

Either way, it isn't worth getting upset about. He chose neutral. It didn't work out. The end. 

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I'm not getting upset, I'm just explaining his point of view because I myself didn't really consider it carefully in the past.

 

Bo would've had to ride him, yes, but Bo is also very good on top, which is why Isaac didn't go down. These two have wrestled each other their whole lives. I will give Bo the benefit of the doubt even if I didn't agree with his choice.

 

By the way, LUAlum nailed the real issue. Bo pulled a Snyder. Ryan needs to have a talk with his freshmen to always take a moment to think before making a decision. Freshman mistake, and it cost him big this time.

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nerd, I get what you are saying. But he'd still have to not only get the TD, but also ride him out, then get another TD in OT or win in ride outs.

No, a TD and rideout would've won it. It was 2-2 with 2 mins RT for IJo and over 90 seconds left.

Edited by wrestlingnerd

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I'm not getting upset, I'm just explaining his point of view because I myself didn't really consider it carefully in the past.

Bo would've had to ride him, yes, but Bo is also very good on top, which is why Isaac didn't go down. These two have wrestled each other their whole lives. I will give Bo the benefit of the doubt even if I didn't agree with his choice.

By the way, LUAlum nailed the real issue. Bo pulled a Snyder. Ryan needs to have a talk with his freshmen to always take a moment to think before making a decision. Freshman mistake, and it cost him big this time.

Issac did go down, called injury time, which gave Bo choice....

 

I think Bo goes down, gets out, and then wins in OT without the potential of Isaac escaping. However, Bo couldn't get past issac's defense at all so it doesn't matter if it's in regulation or OT

Edited by scrambler

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Been to Jeff Jordans wrestling camp several times.  He tells how pissed he gets when kids go to the waist while finishing their singles.  I was shocked to see Bo do that TWICE.  He seems to lose some mental focus.  I know how many times he has been trained in that position.

 

He is having a great year, but might be cutting too much on consecutive days to keep mental focus in a tough match.  He is one of the biggest 165 lbers I have seen.

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I agree with scrambler; he should have taken down. Think about it, with over 1;30 to go in the match and Isaac having a stall call on him, he would have cut Bo or the official would call stalling (they are much more likely to call stalling to tie a match than to put someone in the lead). Definitely would have gone into OT in imo, had Bo chosen down. 

  Incidentally Bo showed a clear weakness on bottom throughout the tournament; he was ridden the whole period in his quarters win, No chance vs Dieringer(sp)

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FullNelson,

 

I am just looking at where Bo scored his only points in the match, plus the stall call.  I think we are on the same page.  It's obvious that bottom is a weakness for Bo, but he also had a major issue finishing on Issac.  As a coach,  i think we go down, get out, and look for 2pts in a situation that eliminates the most potential for scrambling (or no reaction time). 

 

Issac was clearly the better wrestler that day as he scored in two of the three positions.

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He should have chose to stay on top.

Thank You!  BoJo clearly was struggling on bottom and in neutral but not on top.  He got the boots right in and started cranking and Isaac yelped.  He could have done the same thing again and possibly won by injury default.  

 

My only explanation for why Bo kept going around the waist was that perhaps it was something he'd done successfully in the past against Isaac.  It made no sense from a technique perspective.

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Win by injury default?  I don't think that strategy crosses the minds of honorable compeititors.  Maybe i am just a big wimp  ;-)

 

The only thing that is truly uncertain is how Bo could of done on top for a full 2 minutes. 

Edited by scrambler

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Win by injury default?  I don't think that strategy crosses the minds of honorable compeititors.  Maybe i am just a big wimp  ;-)

 

The only thing that is truly uncertain is how Bo could of done on top for a full 2 minutes. 

As a former coach, you have one job--figure out how to get a win for your wrestler.  There are big time seeding implications on the line, etc...

 

If Isaac couldn't take that banana split position--for whatever reason--go right back to it.  Maybe he goes to his back.  Maybe he has to stop again.  It's a tactic to win.  There is nothing dishonorable in the suggestion.  

 

I am a Buckeye fan and saw nothing wrong with the Illinois wrestler pressuring Hunter's elbow.  Hunter took the mat with an injury and his opponent saw a weakness.  Same for Bo against Isaac.  

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imo any wrestler should do what HE wants. He will have a better chance to succeed because HE THINKS this is the best position for himself.

What I or what anyone else would do is of no importance.

As a coach I always told my wrestlers "you choose, if you are unsure THEN I will make the call". I wanted them where they were confident.

I find it interesting that our coaching philosophies are completely 180 degrees.

I never let them choose unless I feel they can, which is rare.

 

In the stress of a match it is tough enough as it is to focus on your opponent and the logistics of the battle let alone have the where with all to make a tough choice like that.

 

I'm not saying I'm right and you're wrong, just find it interesting.

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As a former coach, you have one job--figure out how to get a win for your wrestler.  There are big time seeding implications on the line, etc...

 

If Isaac couldn't take that banana split position--for whatever reason--go right back to it.  Maybe he goes to his back.  Maybe he has to stop again.  It's a tactic to win.  There is nothing dishonorable in the suggestion.  

 

I am a Buckeye fan and saw nothing wrong with the Illinois wrestler pressuring Hunter's elbow.  Hunter took the mat with an injury and his opponent saw a weakness.  Same for Bo against Isaac.  

If you are trying for an injury default, you're dishonorable.

If you are wrestling in legal positions and it happens then so be it.

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