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meloserio

Six Time State Champs

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I do find the practice of intentionally failing middle school or holding someone back solely for sports reasons stupid. It may be technically legal, it still violates spirit of fair play. If a kid is good enough and progresses, it doesn't matter if he has 2 state titles or 4 state titles. Someone is going to notice and give him a chance to wrestle in college. John Smith has two state championships. Jordan Burroughs had "only" one state title. Let chips fall where they may and stop trying to game the system one way or another.

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  • You mean a 100% legal practice of holding your child back?  
  • Why does this bother you if it is totally legal?  
  • Why does anyone care if a kid graduated HS at 17 or 19?  
  • People who actually care about this--I would say spell out their insecure need to boost their ego's by putting down a kid and his family because they did what they felt was best for both of them.
  • I am sure there are MANY kids who graduated HS at 17 who thought--:"Gee... maybe I was not ready... maybe I should have stayed back a year."
  • But people obsessed with "How things should be" will never be able to comprehend such simple concepts.

 

OK, we get it, you would or have held your kid back for a competitive advantage in high school.  There are people like you and there are a lot of people like me who think it's B.S.  I have seen too much of it lately where kids get held back in 7th or 8th grade specifically for a sports advantage.

 

So why don't you get over it? I don't like it and that won't change, you like it and I can't change your mind...to each there own. 

Edited by wiedsworld

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Hall retaking 7th grade is more of a comment on the Kentucky school system than anything else.  MN required that he retake the grade to meet their educational standards.

Are you sure it isn't a comment on the Michigan school system? He did spend 6 years there along with from what I have seen half a year as a 7th grader.

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OK, we get it, you would or have held your kid back for a competitive advantage in high school.  There are people like you and there are a lot of people like me who think it's B.S.  I have seen too much of it lately where kids get held back in 7th or 8th grade specifically for a sports advantage.

 

So why don't you get over it? I don't like it and that won't change, you like it and I can't change your mind...to each there own. 

Yup.... I could not agree more.

 

I am really sorry that it upsets you and so many others that parents and children actually exercise their free will to make a private choice in their lives and stay back a grade for "competitive" (or academic, or maturity, or psychological, or working, or  a hundred other) reasons... etc.

 

I find it especially fascinating that it upsets so many of the self-righteous, smug, supercilious folks who are deeply troubled when people practice this free choice when their child is in Jr. High school, but it does not seem to bother people if they held him or her back in second grade for a number of personal, individual, and private reasons.

 

That's is the problem living in a country where you actually can "choose" what you want to do in personal lives and decide what is best for your children in many cases....

 

I also find it amusing that no amount of foot-stomping, whining, howling, squealing, complaining, moaning, bellyaching, whimpering, kvetching, and crying "THAT'S NOT FAIR" by our sanctimonious, hoity-toity, pompous, holier-than-thou neighbors actually matters.

 

Too Bad... So Sad... If you have an issue... here's a tissue... as the saying goes.

 

So you are 100% correct "I don't like it and that won't change, you like it and I can't change your mind...to each there own."

 

I used to live in communist countries.  Man, do I love the personal freedom we have in the US sometimes to actually decide what is best for our families regardless of what my puritanical, abstemious fellow citizens think or say.  

 

Great country in this case.

Edited by leshismore

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Pico caught so much heat for winning a state championship as a 15 year old.   What exactly is wrong with that?  He won all the age groups and on track to graduate by 18.   

   

 

 

Say what you will about Pico, but he would have graduated at 20. 

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This age debate happens on this forum and many others this time of year (every year).   Same points made on both sides every time.  Search this board and others and you see the same tired thread.  It always comes down to "they are within the rules" and "they should change the rule".  

 

 

It is the dead time of year when wrestling junkies need something to talk about before national duals and Fargo.  

 

 

Back to the original topic, there is a 6th grader in FL who is very good and he has won or placed in many national events.  He wrestled 106 this past season making it to state.  He also wrestled 90lbs for a middle school all-star dual team during the season.  So he is still a little small, but next year he will be in the mix for the title.  He could go for 6. 

 

 

Then again, maybe he gets held back and he could go for 7.  (sorry. couldn't resist)

 

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While we are on this topic, I want to ask the board a related question. How about those schools that actively take in kids from other districts or states? Have you read about what Apple Valley does? A significant fraction of their team is people who moved specifically to wrestle for Apple Valley. In some cases these students are put up by boarders, in other cases their parents move. In the case of Gable Stevenson, he is living with a family. Mark Hall's parents who are decidedly not divorced are split up. Mom brings home the bacon in Michigan, Dad and Mark are in Minnesota. 

 

How do I know this? I think it's well known, but here are my sources. Flo's documentary on Mark Hall talks about Mark and his dad. They interview Mark's dad and mom who says as much about what each does.

 

Regarding boarders, check out this random article I found. I find it fascinating. The article is from the Pioneer Press, Feb 2014. It's about how Apple Valley may win the state championships once again even though they lost two of their stars.

 

Big picture, lots of imports (remember this is from Feb 2014):

 

At this season's onset, at least three of Apple Valley's top wrestlers came from out of state: 2013 state champions Mark Hall, whose cross-country resume includes stops in Kentucky and Michigan; Dayton Racer from Missouri; and Gable Steveson, an eighth-grader from Indiana.

 

Here are some quotes. One student left because his host family apparently felt threatened:

 

But last month, two of Apple Valley's best wrestlers left the program, including Racer, a junior who won the 145-pound state title last season and was 29-0 at 152 and 160 pounds this season. He withdrew from school after a host family with which he was living obtained a court order for protection against him.

 

Regarding those eligibility rules:

 

Under Minnesota State High School League rules, a high school student who transfers to a new school is eligible to immediately compete in varsity athletics only if he or she has moved into the new school district with a parent.

 

So now we have two age old arguments to engage in. Let's call one the vertical issue. Do you keep someone back a year or two. Then we have the horizontal issue. Do you move someone to a better school to get the most out of his potential.

Edited by BigTimeFan

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There isn't really a "would have." He's still graduating, just doing it through online cooresponence courses now.

 

Say what you will about Pico, but he would have graduated at 20. 

 

 

Kind of hate to admit it.....Aaron Pico is 18 years old right now.....he will be a Senior next year at this time.

 

When he graduates he will "STILL" be 18 YEARS OLD!!! I don't usually lobby for kids from 'other' states but Pico is graduating at the right age.

 

Now, Mark Hall is graduating at 19 I believe.  

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Kind of hate to admit it.....Aaron Pico is 18 years old right now.....he will be a Senior next year at this time.

 

When he graduates he will "STILL" be 18 YEARS OLD!!! I don't usually lobby for kids from 'other' states but Pico is graduating at the right age.

 

Now, Mark Hall is graduating at 19 I believe.  

False

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Pico

 

Aaron Pico was born  September 26, 1996, he will turn 19 in September and thus if he graduated in 2016 he would be 19.

 

Mark Hall was born January 11, 1997. He will be 19 when he graduated in 2016

http://content.themat.com/section.php?section_id=3&page=showarticle&ArticleID=26758

Edited by BobDole

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BigTimeFan,

It's Gable Steveson not Stevenson. And though I don't know the specific living arrangements, Gable moved with his family to the Minneapolis/St. Paul suburb area from Indiana after his older brother Bobby's 10th grade year. Gable at the time was in 7th grade. The residence around a 20 min. drive from Apple Valley HS if I recall hearing correctly.

Edited by MadMardigain

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False

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaron_Pico

 

Aaron Pico was born  September 26, 1996, he will turn 19 in September and thus if he graduated in 2016 he would be 19.

 

Mark Hall was born January 11, 1997. He will be 19 when he graduated in 2016

http://content.themat.com/section.php?section_id=3&page=showarticle&ArticleID=26758

 

 

You must have not read my post.....

 

WHEN HE GRADUATES HE WILL "STILL" BE 18 YEARS OLD!!!!!  MOST HIGH SCHOOLS HAVE THERE GRADUATIONS IN MAY OR JUNE!!!

 

September of 2016 he will turn 19 years old, most kids start college around that time.  He is on track to start College at the right age. Which is 19.

 

I'm from Harrisburg, so I don't have a horse in this race......just stating the obvious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

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You must have not read my post.....

 

WHEN HE GRADUATES HE WILL "STILL" BE 18 YEARS OLD!!!!!  MOST HIGH SCHOOLS HAVE THERE GRADUATIONS IN MAY OR JUNE!!!

 

September of 2016 he will turn 19 years old, most kids start college around that time.  He is on track to start College at the right age. Which is 19.

 

I'm from Harrisburg, so I don't have a horse in this race......just stating the obvious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

In September of 2016 he will be 20 years old. 

 

You might want to check your math. 

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You must have not read my post.....

 

WHEN HE GRADUATES HE WILL "STILL" BE 18 YEARS OLD!!!!!  MOST HIGH SCHOOLS HAVE THERE GRADUATIONS IN MAY OR JUNE!!!

 

September of 2016 he will turn 19 years old, most kids start college around that time.  He is on track to start College at the right age. Which is 19.

 

I'm from Harrisburg, so I don't have a horse in this race......just stating the obvious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Hi, welcome! Some advice, before you blow your top, take a breath, think for a second, use your hands and toes to count and you'll see your mistake.

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BigTimeFan,

It's Gable Steveson not Stevenson. And though I don't know the specific living arrangements, Gable moved with his family to the Minneapolis/St. Paul suburb area from Indiana after his older brother Bobby's 10th grade year. Gable at the time was in 7th grade. The residence around a 20 min. drive from Apple Valley HS if I recall hearing correctly.

Thank you for the correction on the name. I knew his first name was Gable, but I get your point.

 

I didn't actually know if his family came with him or not but did know his older brother was there two and very good and his brother even potentially better, with Gable taking second in states as an eight  grader. 

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You must have not read my post.....

 

WHEN HE GRADUATES HE WILL "STILL" BE 18 YEARS OLD!!!!! MOST HIGH SCHOOLS HAVE THERE GRADUATIONS IN MAY OR JUNE!!!

 

September of 2016 he will turn 19 years old, most kids start college around that time. He is on track to start College at the right age. Which is 19.

 

I'm from Harrisburg, so I don't have a horse in this race......just stating the obvious!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is an example of why I am careful when correcting someone. I try not to say things like obvious and so forth. In case I'm actually screwing something up. I would then look pretty foolish. I've been there. Don't like the feeling.

 

i can't prevent helping out here .... 1996 to 2016 is 20 years. Not 19.

Edited by nom

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This is an example of why I am careful when correcting someone. I try not to say things like obvious and so forth. In case I'm actually screwing something up. I would then look pretty foolish. I've been there. Don't like the feeling.

 

i can't prevent helping out here .... 1996 to 2016 is 20 years. Not 19.

I find it interesting fanta has not been posting lately.

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