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JohnnyThompsonnum1

We Add to the two list this year right?

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Best to never win an NCAA Title?

I think it'd be hard to argue against Northwestern Heavyweight Mike McMullan who finishes out his career placing 3rd-2nd-3rd-3rd.   I think he for sure gets added to the long illustrious list.

Do we add in Mitchell Port at 141 lbs who finished DNP-2nd-3rd-2nd?   Or how about James Green of Nebraska (7th-7th-3rd-3rd) or Dylan Ness of Minnesota (2nd-4th-2nd-6th)?

I'd argue Ness for sure, because if it wasn't for an injury the 6th place finish this year would have most likely been a 2nd (or maybe even a first). 

Best to never All American?
 

Nick Moore of Iowa?  Remember I'm talking collaboratively, over a whole career, not just this season.  If I were specifically talking about 2015, I could name a ton of seniors, but accumulatively putting together freshman, sophomore, junior and senior years, he's the only one that really sticks out to me.   Wins he earned throughout his  varsity career, had me almost certain he would make the award stand at least once during his career. 

I will say that I am very happy to not add Indiana's Taylor Walsh or Cornell's Chris Villalonga to the list.   Very rewarding to see both of them finally break through.



Looking ahead to next year I have to put Johnni DiJulius of Ohio State, David Terao of American, and Zach Horan of Central Michigan on the list of those that must win an NCAA AA award, or otherwise be among the best not to.  All three have multiple wins throughout their careers over various All Americans.  

As far as the NCAA title is concerned, Nahshon Garrett of Cornell.   He's thus far finished 3rd-2nd-5th and moving up to 133 lbs next year to challenge Cody Brewer for his title will be no easy task.



What are your thoughts?

 

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Best to never win an NCAA Title?

 

I think it'd be hard to argue against Northwestern Heavyweight Mike McMullan who finishes out his career placing 3rd-2nd-3rd-3rd.   I think he for sure gets added to the long illustrious list.

 

Do we add in Mitchell Port at 141 lbs who finished DNP-2nd-3rd-2nd?   Or how about James Green of Nebraska (7th-7th-3rd-3rd) or Dylan Ness of Minnesota (2nd-4th-2nd-6th)?

 

I'd argue Ness for sure, because if it wasn't for an injury the 6th place finish this year would have most likely been a 2nd (or maybe even a first). 

 

Best to never All American?

 

Nick Moore of Iowa?  Remember I'm talking collaboratively, over a whole career, not just this season.  If I were specifically talking about 2015, I could name a ton of seniors, but accumulatively putting together freshman, sophomore, junior and senior years, he's the only one that really sticks out to me.   Wins he earned throughout his  varsity career, had me almost certain he would make the award stand at least once during his career. 

 

I will say that I am very happy to not add Indiana's Taylor Walsh or Cornell's Chris Villalonga to the list.   Very rewarding to see both of them finally break through.

 

 

 

Looking ahead to next year I have to put Johnni DiJulius of Ohio State, David Terao of American, and Zach Horan of Central Michigan on the list of those that must win an NCAA AA award, or otherwise be among the best not to.  All three have multiple wins throughout their careers over various All Americans.  

 

As far as the NCAA title is concerned, Nahshon Garrett of Cornell.   He's thus far finished 3rd-2nd-5th and moving up to 133 lbs next year to challenge Cody Brewer for his title will be no easy task.

 

 

 

What are your thoughts?

 

 

Might as well put Megaludis in there with Garrett.   And how about Demas as a top wrestler never to AA this past year?

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JohnnyThompsonnum1,

 

 

Why do you assume Ness would "most likely" have been 2nd place this year if he didn't get hurt? For starters, Ness didn't just slip on a wet spot on the mat and twist his ankle, he was hurt by Realbuto. He was outwrestled, physically dominated, and hurt by Realbuto. That semifinal matchup looked like it was going the way their previous matchup went earlier this season. I'm not sure why you believe Ness was on his way to winning that matchup. He was down about 6-2 at the time and things weren't looking too good for him if you ask me.

Edited by oldsuper

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Best to never win an NCAA Title?

 

I think it'd be hard to argue against Northwestern Heavyweight Mike McMullan who finishes out his career placing 3rd-2nd-3rd-3rd.   I think he for sure gets added to the long illustrious list.

 

Do we add in Mitchell Port at 141 lbs who finished DNP-2nd-3rd-2nd?   Or how about James Green of Nebraska (7th-7th-3rd-3rd) or Dylan Ness of Minnesota (2nd-4th-2nd-6th)?

 

I'd argue Ness for sure, because if it wasn't for an injury the 6th place finish this year would have most likely been a 2nd (or maybe even a first). 

 

Best to never All American?

 

Nick Moore of Iowa?  Remember I'm talking collaboratively, over a whole career, not just this season.  If I were specifically talking about 2015, I could name a ton of seniors, but accumulatively putting together freshman, sophomore, junior and senior years, he's the only one that really sticks out to me.   Wins he earned throughout his  varsity career, had me almost certain he would make the award stand at least once during his career. 

 

I will say that I am very happy to not add Indiana's Taylor Walsh or Cornell's Chris Villalonga to the list.   Very rewarding to see both of them finally break through.

 

 

 

Looking ahead to next year I have to put Johnni DiJulius of Ohio State, David Terao of American, and Zach Horan of Central Michigan on the list of those that must win an NCAA AA award, or otherwise be among the best not to.  All three have multiple wins throughout their careers over various All Americans.  

 

As far as the NCAA title is concerned, Nahshon Garrett of Cornell.   He's thus far finished 3rd-2nd-5th and moving up to 133 lbs next year to challenge Cody Brewer for his title will be no easy task.

 

 

 

What are your thoughts?

 

 

 

I pick Max Thomusseit over Moore. 3x R12. Top 5 seeded guy twice. Gutwrenching to watch.

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JohnyThompsonnum1,

 

Yes Ness would be one of the very best if he finished 2-4-2-3, that's not what happened though. Ness was physically beaten by Realbuto and wasn't able to continue the match. I no longer watch consolation matches (as you may already know I leave the building entirely), but I believe he didn't wrestle another match the entire tournament.

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Isn't Bryan Snyder considered the best to never win a title? 

 

The ESPN 3 internet feed stated several times over the 3 days that if the rules back when Snyder wrestled were what they are today, Snyder would be a 2X national champion. 

 

Kokesh has the second most wins in Nebraska history (tied with Snyder) and finished 3rd, 4th, 3rd, and would get a vote from me as one of the best to never win a title. Green works for me as he is only the second wrestler in Nebraska history to be a 4X All-American. 

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Green as a 4X All-American is a good choice for one of the best to never win.  

 

The story has another byline to it though.  In 2009 Poeta (ILL) came into the NCAA tournament 13-0 in an injury-shortened season.  Poeta had placed 3rd in 2007 and 2nd in 2008 and was determined to win a championship.  Unfortunately he ran into Burroughs (NEB), who came into the tournament at 30-0 and proceded to beat Poeta 5-1 in the finals match.

 

Fast forward to 2015, Green (NEB) on the mat and his coach and mentor Burroughs in his corner.  Martinez (ILL) defeats Green 3-2.  Not exactly payback, but karma is sometimes a bitch.

Edited by robnh

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Green as a 4X All-American is a good choice for one of the best to never win.  

 

The story has another byline to it though.  In 2009 Poeta (ILL) came into the NCAA tournament 13-0 in an injury-shortened season.  Poeta had placed 3rd in 2007 and 2nd in 2008 and was determined to win a championship.  Unfortunately he ran into Burroughs (NEB), who came into the tournament at 30-0 and proceded to beat Poeta 5-1 in the finals match.

 

Fast forward to 2015, Green (NEB) on the mat and his coach and mentor Burroughs in his corner.  Martinez (ILL) whips him solidly 10-2.  Not exactly payback, but karma is sometimes a bitch.

 

 

Um, Martinez beat Green 3-2 in a very close match. 

Edited by Alexander_Delarge_655321

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JohnnyThompsonnum1,

 

 

Why do you assume Ness would "most likely" have been 2nd place this year if he didn't get hurt? For starters, Ness didn't just slip on a wet spot on the mat and twist his ankle, he was hurt by Realbuto. He was outwrestled, physically dominated, and hurt by Realbuto. That semifinal matchup looked like it was going the way their previous matchup went earlier this season. I'm not sure why you believe Ness was on his way to winning that matchup. He was down about 6-2 at the time and things weren't looking too good for him if you ask me.

I'm going to disagree with this a little. I agree we can't just assume that Ness would have won the match. However, you are a little off on some of your claims about the match. Ness got the first takedown rather easily. Yes, realbuto got another one but it was also on that takedown that Ness hurt his shoulder the first time. Because of this it is now 4-2 instead of a likely 3-3 (due to the injury timeout rule). Realbuto's next take down came off a scramble where in the process ness hurt his shoulder for good. If you have seen the pics on his Twitter it is evident why he didn't wrestle again.

 

So, yes realbuto was winning, but if ness doesn't get injured it is a completely different match.

Edited by gopher_fan_90

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JohnnyThompsonnum1,

 

 

Why do you assume Ness would "most likely" have been 2nd place this year if he didn't get hurt? For starters, Ness didn't just slip on a wet spot on the mat and twist his ankle, he was hurt by Realbuto. He was outwrestled, physically dominated, and hurt by Realbuto. That semifinal matchup looked like it was going the way their previous matchup went earlier this season. I'm not sure why you believe Ness was on his way to winning that matchup. He was down about 6-2 at the time and things weren't looking too good for him if you ask me.

 

Ness got the first TD and was beating Realbuto before he got hurt and was unable to wrestle.  His injury resulted in him giving up several sets of points

 

Its far from a guarentee that he would have won, but your post is greatly mischaracterizing the match.

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LostNumber,

 

 

Are you sure that's what happened? I remember Ness getting hurt when he was down 4-2. I remember Realbuto taking it too him before he defaulted. Did you see what caused Ness to be hurt? Wasn't it a hold applied by Realbuto that hurt Ness? Or am I mistaken?

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Ness never was winning the match. Realbuto got the first td. Ness reversal. Realbuto escaped 2x. The second one after injury time choice. Realbuto another td.  6-2. No reason to think Ness was on his way to winning.

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McMullan's NCAA has been impressive as it gets when talking about best to never win a title.  4 years, 1 loss each year and 3 out of the 4 years ends on a win to take 3rd.

 

What does he weigh?  I ask this because as athletic as he is, I wonder if he wasn't a bit heavier he may have captured at least 1 title somewhere along the NCAA tournament journey.

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