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LordNelson

Teams that Over-performed, Under-performed, or Hit the Margin

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tOSU: They needed Courts/Demas/JDJ to punch through and the one I thought wouldn't did.

Regardless: Over-performed  (Freshman got it done and Logan was Logan)

 

Iowa: Under-performed.  Took 2nd, lost some key bouts and had a few guys just flat out quit on the program.  

 

Edinboro: Hit the margin.  Little school in po-dunk PA that everyone said had no chance this year gets a team trophy.  Hell, put Austin Matthews in there and they are in 2nd.......but every team is banged up.  Boro has a lot less room for error.

 

MIZZ: Under-performed.  No need to pile on them but Cox and Waters didn't get it done in deep weights.  It didn't help Eblen lost his mind.  They were seeded well but we all know what that means.

 

Cornell: Hit the margin.  Yea the Garrett losses but again, injury plays a role.  He ran back through.  Villalonga did what he should've as did Realbuto and Dean.  Palacio and Bennett didn't get there but they win a match or two and they are top 3.

 

Penn State: Hit the margin.  Conaway gets AA.  Gulibon, McIntosh, Brown, and Lawson all did well.  They'll reload but Cael conceded the title back in November.

 

OSU: Over-performed.  Uncle John getting it out of Heil and Crutch.  Others doing what they should.

 

Minnesota: Under-performed.  Injuries got the gophs.  Classiest team in the tournament.  Ness coming out Saturday made me emotional, and I'm emotionally retarded.  Regardless, gopher nation is proud of their team but they wouldn't deny their lack of performance.

 

Nebraska: Hit the Margin.  Better runs through the wrestle backs and Nebraska could have jumped a spot or too but all in all they were steady.  Kokesh came up short but that weight has been tough predict for years.

 

VTech: Underperformed.  They had a nice year and getting guys like Epperly to the podium is impressive.  Luck of the draw and Dance not winning put them where they don't want to be.

 

OUTSIDE THE TOP TEN NOTES:

Had a good tourney:

Michigan: don't care what others think of the staff, considering all things they did well

 

NCSTATE: Kevin Jack!  Look, if you're a mid major do what Popolizio is doing and you can't go wrong

 

Wanted more from:

Northern Iowa

Wyoming

**These guys usually get a few through, will be back next year I'm sure

 

Not scoring over 1 point as a team in the National Tournament and you have 9.9 Scholarships??

-Then it is time to re-evaluate your program philosophy because you aren't getting it done.

-Any and all AD's should demand AA quality kids from every school with at least 5 scholarships, 9.9 schools should be producing 1-2 AA contenders a year, no excuses.

 

 

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Not scoring over 1 point as a team in the National Tournament and you have 9.9 Scholarships??

-Then it is time to re-evaluate your program philosophy because you aren't getting it done.

-Any and all AD's should demand AA quality kids from every school with at least 5 scholarships, 9.9 schools should be producing 1-2 AA contenders a year, no excuses.

 

Enjoyed the majority of your post and even the piece that I have quoted here I don't necessarily disagree with, but for some reason just saying this out loud makes it sound like a recipe for more programs cut.

 

ADs don't give a damn about wrestling or any other sport that isn't revenue generating IMO.  Putting in the work to demand these results would be too much work for them.

 

Just randomly spouting thoughts on a Monday morning :) great post overall!

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A solid breakdown, but in the contest for "classiest team," Nick Dardanes quitting the sport two bouts before the end of his collegiate career had to cost the Goofs some style points.

 

As for Dylan Ness, he's been nothing but good for the sport (even when he was pinning the guy on the team I root for). I was sorry to see his career end the way it did.

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not sure I'd say Va Tech underperformed. They had a horrible quarter finals, but besides that>

Yes Dance did not match seed (under)

Carter exceeded seed, though it could be argued no one thought he shouldn't have been 3 seed all along. (slightly over or even)

Mastriani 7 seed rd of 12 slightly under

Braschetta exceeded (though again most thought he was better that his 'non seed' status and benefitted from Ness injury)

Epperly matched seed.

Walz exceeded seed.

197 and 133 did about as expected.

 

so I'd say Walz AA balances out Mastriani only being rd of 12. 197 and 133 as noted about what expected. Epperly and Carter, about what expected. Braschetta over achievement balances out Dance under? I think at the end of it, Joey is the only major disapoinment, not to say that Mastriani and others weren't looking for better as well. Overall I think they hit margin.   

 

and more than that, rebounded from that bad quarters round big time. 0-5 in quarters, to 4-2 in blood round, nice.  

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I really didn't put seeding too much in my opinion on whether or not they hit the mark,

VTech: Prolly fair to say they at least hit the margin with Walz balancing out Dance.

 

Boro: They wanted a title this year and it was well documented.  I give them credit for aiming that high.  That being said they didn't make it.  Based on their expectations, they missed.

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Enjoyed the majority of your post and even the piece that I have quoted here I don't necessarily disagree with, but for some reason just saying this out loud makes it sound like a recipe for more programs cut.

 

ADs don't give a damn about wrestling or any other sport that isn't revenue generating IMO.  Putting in the work to demand these results would be too much work for them.

 

Just randomly spouting thoughts on a Monday morning :) great post overall!

Problem is some programs aren't putting in the work and aren't being held accountable.

Just like you can't wait for officials to decide your match outcome and you can't wait for the AD's to say "produce".

 

There are a group of coaches that need a serious look in the mirror on their philosophy of how to run "their" program.

Saying it out loud is what the sport needs to survive.

Quietly failing is grounds for cutting the sport as equal to taking accountability.

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Enjoyed the majority of your post and even the piece that I have quoted here I don't necessarily disagree with, but for some reason just saying this out loud makes it sound like a recipe for more programs cut.

 

ADs don't give a damn about wrestling or any other sport that isn't revenue generating IMO.  Putting in the work to demand these results would be too much work for them.

 

Just randomly spouting thoughts on a Monday morning :) great post overall!

Ohio State's Gene Smith would be an exception:  He follows the wrestling team very closely.  

 

Of course, the team probably does generate some revenue.  

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Ohio State's Gene Smith would be an exception:  He follows the wrestling team very closely.  

 

Of course, the team probably does generate some revenue.  

Isn't he the one who got an $18,000 check for Striebler's 1st championship? I bet he follows it! Kid eats ramen noodles and AD gets a major bonus when the kid does all the work.

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Isn't he the one who got an $18,000 check for Striebler's 1st championship? I bet he follows it! Kid eats ramen noodles and AD gets a major bonus when the kid does all the work.

its true. Gene Smith did get 18k when Logan won but has since changed the contract to have the bonus based on team academics performance, not individual performance due to the backlashes. Gene Smith got the bonus from the football success though.

 

http://buckeyextra.dispatch.com/content/stories/2015/01/31/new-deal-for-smith-emphasizes-academics.html

Edited by Buckeyebison

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What about WVU and Sammie Henson?  Moisey's incredible run was no fluke.  If memory serves, Morales had a decent tourney as well.  

 

Also, didn't UNC have a couple guys that did pretty well?

I did the top 10 and standouts in my mind.

Can't deny that Sammie has something brewing in WVU.  

Zeke isn't a surprise to me as far as being an AA goes but his tournament was outstanding.

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Isn't he the one who got an $18,000 check for Striebler's 1st championship? I bet he follows it! Kid eats ramen noodles and AD gets a major bonus when the kid does all the work.

Gene Smith is responsible for Ohio State winning a couple of tough national titles this year. The complaints about his contract last year were laughable. But he changed the contract anyway, since the small-minded would find any excuse to take pot shots.

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Injuries got Minnesota but not Iowa?  

 

I have gotten word that Evans & Moore were dealing with injuries all year. Also, Brooks re-injured his hamstring in the Dean match at nationals. But the fact that they wrestled through them all year and didn't talk or make a big production about them makes them guys that quit on the program where Minnesota guys sit out big matches during the year and then fall completely apart at nationals and they are the classiest team in the country.  

 

With how wide open 184 was it was huge for the team race. Courts took advantage for sure but it would have been nice to see what a healthy Brooks could have done. 

Edited by OtisCampbell

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One would think the title of this thread would have un-biased analysis........

 

Iowa wrestled 51 matches at the NCAA tournament.  For a barometer tOSU wrestled 41.  Gilman(4-2), Clark(4-1), Dziewa(2-2), Sorenson(6-2), Kelly(0-2), Moore(0-2), Evans(3-3), Brooks(2-2), Burak(4-2) and Telford(6-2).  Of those matches EXACTLY how many were "bad" losses?  Conversely, how many were "good" wins?

 

Gilman took 4th from the 6 seed.  If you want to blast him for the Moisey loss, how about crediting him for the underdog Dance win that got him there?

 

Clark wrestled way above expectations.  To end up in the finals ahead of Dardanes, Taylor and  Schopp was impressive.  Hell, he was the only guy that even kept a match reasonably close with Brewer.

 

Dziewa-At first glance it looked like he underperformed as a 5 seed.  However, his draw says otherwise.  Losing to Jack wasn't some big upset.  Jack didn't falter after winning.  He beat Devin Carter and Mecate.  Dziewa then easily won his next 2 matches before falling again to Mayes.  I doubt anyone could have reasonably expected a win in that match.

 

Sorenson won 6 matches as a freshman!  Enough said!

 

Kelly fought hard, but he was unseeded for a reason.......

 

Moore-  This is the ONLY guy that can be accused of quitting.  Still, I really didn't expect him to beat Harger.  He could/should have won a match or 2 in wrestlebacks.

 

Evans lost to Brown and Kokesh for the Bzillionth times.  If you want to hit him for the Crutchmer loss, that cost the team a whopping 1 point.

 

Brooks lost to Dean and Stauffer.  Exactly which guy was he supposed to beat?

 

Burak lost to Gadson and McIntosh.  See above ^

 

Telford had 1 "bad" loss, albeit to a returning AA in Myers.  He then went 6-1 to take 5th.

 

 

Of the 51 matches they wrestled, you could realistically say they had maybe 4 bad losses.  Conversely(again), how many good wins did they have to offset this?  If less than 10% of there matches were bad losses, how many teams had less than 10% bad losses and met or exceeded their expectations?

 

 

The best part of it all is they easily took 2nd and that finish alone makes them underachievers.   Iowa actually did very well considering the way their respective brackets played out.  Iowa didn't lose this tournament,  tOSU won it!

Edited by MSU158

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How about as a conference, the PAC-12. With guys like Delgado and Martinez leaving the west coast for the big 10, his is hurting the PAC-12.The coaches here need to do a better job of recruiting and keeping local talent from leaving. I know Zeke is in the process of doing this with next year's recruiting class, but Zelesky, Borelli, and Randall need to have better showings.

 

Conference stock up has to be the Big 12. Even though there is only four schools, all four had a finalist with 3 of them crowning champions, with only 1 being a #1 seed. Ok St showed that they still got it and will have it next year, Oklahoma was young but Brwer breaking through as the 13 seed, Iowa State still somewhat of a question mark but Jackson's team has improved from year to year, and Sammie the Bull is going to get West Virginia back in the spotlight in a year or two.

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One would think the title of this thread would have un-biased analysis........

 

Iowa wrestled 51 matches at the NCAA tournament.  For a barometer tOSU wrestled 41.  Gilman(4-2), Clark(4-1), Dziewa(2-2), Sorenson(6-2), Kelly(0-2), Moore(0-2), Evans(3-3), Brooks(2-2), Burak(4-2) and Telford(6-2).  Of those matches EXACTLY how many were "bad" losses?  Conversely, how many were "good" wins?

 

Gilman took 4th from the 6 seed.  If you want to blast him for the Moisey loss, how about crediting him for the underdog Dance win that got him there?

 

Clark wrestled way above expectations.  To end up in the finals ahead of Dardanes, Taylor and  Schopp was impressive.  Hell, he was the only guy that even kept a match reasonably close with Brewer.

 

Dziewa-At first glance it looked like he underperformed as a 5 seed.  However, his draw says otherwise.  Losing to Jack wasn't some big upset.  Jack didn't falter after winning.  He beat Devin Carter and Mecate.  Dziewa then easily won his next 2 matches before falling again to Mayes.  I doubt anyone could have reasonably expected a win in that match.

 

Sorenson won 6 matches as a freshman!  Enough said!

 

Kelly fought hard, but he was unseeded for a reason.......

 

Moore-  This is the ONLY guy that can be accused of quitting.  Still, I really didn't expect him to beat Harger.  He could/should have won a match or 2 in wrestlebacks.

 

Evans lost to Brown and Kokesh for the Bzillionth times.  If you want to hit him for the Crutchmer loss, that cost the team a whopping 1 point.

 

Brooks lost to Dean and Stauffer.  Exactly which guy was he supposed to beat?

 

Burak lost to Gadson and McIntosh.  See above ^

 

Telford had 1 "bad" loss, albeit to a returning AA in Myers.  He then went 6-1 to take 5th.

 

 

Of the 51 matches they wrestled, you could realistically say they had maybe 4 bad losses.  Conversely(again), how many good wins did they have to offset this?  If less than 10% of there matches were bad losses, how many teams had less than 10% bad losses and met or exceeded their expectations?

 

 

The best part of it all is they easily took 2nd and that finish alone makes them underachievers.   Iowa actually did very well considering the way their respective brackets played out.  Iowa didn't lose this tournament,  tOSU won it!

100% agree. Add in that Evans, Moore & Brooks were injured. It is really hard to win without a big gun in your lineup like Stieber, Taylor, Ruth, Metcalf ...  

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OtisCampell,

 

From what I've saw, Evans, Moore and Brooks were well enough to wrestle up to seed. Evans was well enough to win the whole tournament. Poor wrestling in key situations is what cost them the match, and Iowa the national team title.

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OtisCampell,

 

From what I've saw, Evans, Moore and Brooks were well enough to wrestle up to seed. Evans was well enough to win the whole tournament. Poor wrestling in key situations is what cost them the match, and Iowa the national team title.

You may be right. But they were dealing with injuries just like the classy Minnesota guys were. 

 

Nick Moore was obviously a shell of the guy that beat Caldwell and Hager with ease last year. From what I gather it was a back injury that was affecting him all year.  

 

Brooks looked like he could hardly stand up and was falling all over the place in the consolations and yes still had almost beat the #3 seed on the back side.

 

As far as Evans I'm just going off what his parents said on the Iowa forum that he was dealing with injuries all year that was seriously hampering him. Which just makes his ability to beat guys on pure grit all year more impressive. 

 

I along with MSU158 don't really feel like they under performed at nationals. 

Edited by OtisCampbell

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