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Is it time for Iowa...

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To move past Morningstar? If this was mentioned in another Hawk thread idk but the case for his inability to develop the mid weights on the team is legit. Very inconsistent there and the "Evans should be better" argument should fall back on what coach is responsible for developing him. How would they have ended up with more consistency in between? Curious on some thoughts.....

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Are we talking recruiting or developing? Iowa gets kids on name alone. 

True. But consider this: on name alone, Iowa had not landed a recruit from the prestigous Young Guns club until Kaleb Young broke that this past fall. Marinelli was also down between Iowa and Ohio State (which being from he is from Ohio and a lot of his HS friends wrestle at OSU) and Morningstar was the reason he was swayed to Iowa.

 

Sure Iowa gets a lot of attention on names alone, but the recruits still have to feel the fit. The fact that the #1 160 recruit feels comfortable with Morningstar should be telling.

 

As far as development goes, Nick Moore was injured this year so we will never really know. If you watched Nick Moore as a sophomore to where he was as a junior you can see he had tremendous growth in his attacks, but he got a bad draw at NCAA which is what caused his meltdown. Kelly went from being a 149 punching bag to a decent 157 (relative to his high school recruiting ranking - he was never going to be a world beater) so there was also some growth there. Paddock is the first true recruit that Morningstar has had contact with since he was recruited to shape him.

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True. But consider this: on name alone, Iowa had not landed a recruit from the prestigous Young Guns club until Kaleb Young broke that this past fall. Marinelli was also down between Iowa and Ohio State (which being from he is from Ohio and a lot of his HS friends wrestle at OSU) and Morningstar was the reason he was swayed to Iowa.

 

Sure Iowa gets a lot of attention on names alone, but the recruits still have to feel the fit. The fact that the #1 160 recruit feels comfortable with Morningstar should be telling.

 

As far as development goes, Nick Moore was injured this year so we will never really know. If you watched Nick Moore as a sophomore to where he was as a junior you can see he had tremendous growth in his attacks, but he got a bad draw at NCAA which is what caused his meltdown. Kelly went from being a 149 punching bag to a decent 157 (relative to his high school recruiting ranking - he was never going to be a world beater) so there was also some growth there. Paddock is the first true recruit that Morningstar has had contact with since he was recruited to shape him.

 

 

 

Young is a nice wrestler, but he's not at the level of Marinelli. Also, what weight does Marinelli project to wrestle at Iowa? 174? 

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Young is a nice wrestler, but he's not at the level of Marinelli. Also, what weight does Marinelli project to wrestle at Iowa? 174? 

 

Oh no, I wasn't trying to say Young was as good or even close to as good. I just meant Morningstar helped Iowa get their foot in the door with Young, and then Kemerer followed for his reasons, but Ryan played a big role getting in there, because Young likes him as a middleweight coach. Getting in at Young Guns is getting in!

 

Marinelli told me he expects to be 165. I think he said there is a chance he could grow to 174, but I think he feels pretty good at 165.

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OK, so Marinelli is a 165. Maybe Bo Jordan may have played a small part in his switch to Iowa. Marainelli is a terrific wrestler, but lot's of kids make decisions on where they can get on the mat without having to wait. 

I am pretty sure those two are pretty close (BoJo and Alex). Judging by how big of a beast BoJo is, and by the time Marinelli would have been a RSFR, there would have been room in the OSU lineup for BoJo to go to 174 to fit Marinelli. Some people are already suggesting Jordan should bump given his size.

 

Maybe it did play a role in his decision, but one thing is for certain he really is a big Morningstar fan.

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I am pretty sure those two are pretty close (BoJo and Alex). Judging by how big of a beast BoJo is, and by the time Marinelli would have been a RSFR, there would have been room in the OSU lineup for BoJo to go to 174 to fit Marinelli. Some people are already suggesting Jordan should bump given his size.

 

Maybe it did play a role in his decision, but one thing is for certain he really is a big Morningstar fan.

 

 

Maybe. But if BoJo goes 174, does Micah go 165? Hard to say. I would suggest the middle of the Iowa line up provided a much clearer path. Morningstar still had to land him though, so I won't discount that. 

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Marinelli isn't a done deal yet. Got to believe tOSU is back in the picture after nationals, especially if Ryan can tell him BoJo is eventually moving up.

 

I suppose you are right in the fact that it isn't a done deal, but I'll take my chances. I'll let you know after I talk to Alex after AGON, when he wrestles as part of the Iowa team.

 

I am not sure what about that team has actually changed since he made his decision to swtich, and I am not sure if it will matter what Ryan tells him, because like I said, I am pretty sure Alex and Bo are pretty close. Close enough that if it was a matter of Bo Jo being at the same weight that probably would've been worked out before he swtiched, but I guess we'll see.

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He might not be a done deal but the fact that his Twitter is all about Iowa and that he will be wrestling at Agon V are definitely solid signs that he is going to be a Hawkeye. I have a feeling that once he wrestles at Agon V and sees the love for Iowa wrestling that it will be a done deal.

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To move past Morningstar? If this was mentioned in another Hawk thread idk but the case for his inability to develop the mid weights on the team is legit. Very inconsistent there and the "Evans should be better" argument should fall back on what coach is responsible for developing him. How would they have ended up with more consistency in between? Curious on some thoughts.....

I hate all of the unsportsmanlike garbage and extracurricular shoving from Evans as much as anybody, but I think it would be hard to argue he didn't wring every last ounce of success out of his ability.

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I think losing Marinelli has to really sting for Ryan and OSU. I have it on pretty good authority Bo will remain at 165 one more year and then will bump to 174 once Martin graduates. 165 under this scenario would be WIDE OPEN for Marinelli's taking.

 

Does anyone know Isaiah White's college intentions? He is Internat's #1 152 pounder and just looking at his twitter account alone gives you a good idea how much of a Buckeye fan this kid is. If Micah ends up staying and settling in at 149 like some predict, 157 could be wide open for a top recruit like White as well.

 

Upon an hypothetical Marinelli/White arrival:

 

125: Tomasello RS JR

133: Jose Rodriguez RS FR

( Spencer Lee come on down next yr :). )

141: Ke'Shawn Hayes SO

149: Micah Jordan RS SO

157: Isaiah White FR

165: Alex Marinelli FR

174: Bo Jordan RS JR

184: Myles Martin RS FR

197: Kyle Snyder JR

HVW: Thomas Haines RS SO

 

That lineup is realistic and possible with Ryan landing 2 blue chippers again next year, something he has proven capable of doing, in SPG's Marinelli and White. Can Iowa produce a comparable lineup and immediate spot? That's to be determined. All I know is OSUprovides Marinelli immediate P.T, will be a Natti contender without question, and his local with friends on the team. Hard to not take another hard look at least. Same goes with Spencer Lee, who many think is aPSU lock and a kid Tomasello trained with this past summer... Name a better situation for he to walk into when all the super freshman will be seniors and 133 is wide open for him? Color me biased, obviously, but an opportunity to start my career with that lineup and having the ability to train with Nate T, K Hayes and Reece Humphries and Logan Stieber has to be enticing. One can dream right? Upon a Spencer Lee arrival:

 

125: Nate Tomasello RS SR

133: Spencer Lee FR

141: Ke'Shawn Hayes JR

149: Micah Jordan RS JR

157: Isaiah White SO

165: Alex Marinelli SO

174: Bo Jordan RS SR

184: Myles Martin RS SO

197 Kyle Snyder SR

HVW: Thomas Haines RS JR

 

Yikes

Edited by Aviator12

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That lineup is realistic and possible with Ryan landing 2 blue chippers again next year, something he has proven capable of doing, in SPG's Marinelli and White. Can Iowa produce a comparable lineup and immediate spot? That's to be determined. All I know is OSUprovides Marinelli immediate P.T, will be a Natti contender without question, and his local with friends on the team. Hard to not take another hard look at least. Same goes with Spencer Lee, who many think is aPSU lock and a kid Tomasello trained with this past summer... Name a better situation for he to walk into when all the super freshman will be seniors and 133 is wide open for him? Color me biased, obviously, but an opportunity to start my career with that lineup and having the ability to train with Nate T, K Hayes and Reece Humphries and Logan Stieber has to be enticing.

 My response:

 

1. Marinelli is pretty damn good. He would definitley start at Iowa. Good news is they have an opening too, so it works out.

 

2. Can I name a better scenario for Spencer Lee than Ohio State? Yes. Iowa would have Mike Kemerer and Kaleb Young, two of his Young Guns teammates. OSU does not have those. Iowa has 2014 world team member Tony Ramos. OSU does not. Iowa has 2014 National team member McDonough. OSU does not. Gilman beat Tomasello for the Jr world spot twice. Trumps Tomasello in Freestyle. Clark is also a top 10 ranked in the USA in free. Iowa trumps all in lightweight training compeitiors. Not couting coaches.

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Strittmatter at Young Guns pushes Iowa pretty hard but he also pushes PSU as well. From what I have heard, Lee is between Iowa and PSU and leaning PSU. Also, Lee wrestled up at 120 this year so Brown could have 113 so I think Lee for his first couple of years would be projected at 125.

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How did Iowa do in the National Championship this past year, since were trumping everybody? I'll wait. Lee isn't going to Iowa, you can bank that. It's Penn State or OSU, sorry to break that to you.

Let me make it clear. If Lee's intentions are to be an Olympic gold champ, you can be sure he will be looking at Iowa a helluva a lot more than he will be looking at OSU. You asked if there is a better place for Lee than OSU I just listed four guys ranked on the Senior level. OSU has none in the 57-61 (since RH bumped to 65).

 

You already said your biased, so I will not be "banking" anything you have to say about a high school sophomore in his future college plan. I am sorry to break this to you, but despite tOSU's first NCAA team title, Iowa still has better training parterns and coaches by a good margin over the Buckeyes.

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Let me make it clear. If Lee's intentions are to be an Olympic gold champ, you can be sure he will be looking at Iowa a helluva a lot more than he will be looking at OSU. You asked if there is a better place for Lee than OSU I just listed four guys ranked on the Senior level. OSU has none in the 57-61 (since RH bumped to 65).

 

You already said your biased, so I will not be "banking" anything you have to say about a high school sophomore in his future college plan. I am sorry to break this to you, but despite tOSU's first NCAA team title, Iowa still has better training parterns and coaches by a good margin over the Buckeyes.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight either way, but Lou Rosselli has done a fantastic job getting guys onto the WT, more so than the Brands brothers as of late. I would venture to say there isn't a "wide margin" between him and the Brands when it comes to developing senior level athletes.

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How did Iowa do in the National Championship this past year, since were trumping everybody? I'll wait. Lee isn't going to Iowa, you can bank that. It's Penn State or OSU, sorry to break that to you.

And while you are acting like Ohio State is all supreme, go ahead and let me know about the last four matches between Gilman and Tomasello. Gilman has won 3 to Tomasello's 1. Your post seemed pretty level headed and you asked for a better scenario than your obvious favorite school and when it was presented you got defensive. I am just stating some facts for you. Hate on Iowa all you want, but they have good lightweight development.

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I don't have a dog in this fight either way, but Lou Rosselli has done a fantastic job getting guys onto the WT, more so than the Brands brothers as of late. I would venture to say there isn't a "wide margin" between him and the Brands when it comes to developing senior level athletes.

The margin isn't the coaches, it's between the entire package. Iowa has four Senior level guys, and two fantastic lightweight coaches. Tony Ramos going from 133 NCAA champ to 57 USA champ is highly impressive. I am not knocking the tOSU, I just think Iowa has a better offer. And to be fair I said "good margin" not wide... I get where you are coming from, but I feel like there is a difference when we are only communitcating online through internet posts.

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